Impact of the CPS Computer Science Graduation Policy on Student Access and Outcomes
In this episode I unpack McGee, Dettori, and Rasmussen’s (2022) publication titled “Impact of the CPS computer science graduation policy on student access and outcomes,” which explores the impact of a computer science graduation requirement in Chicago Public Schools.
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Welcome back to another episode of the
csk8 podcast my name is Jared O'Leary
each week of this podcast is either an
interview with a guest or multiple
guests or a solo episode where I unpack
some scholarship in relation to Computer
Science Education in this week's
particular episode I'm unpacking a paper
titled impact of the CPS computer
science graduation policy on student
access and outcomes this paper was
written by Stephen McGee Lucia datori
and Andrew rasmusen apologies if I
mispronounced any names here's the
executive summary for this paper quote
the Chicago Public Schools CPS leads the
nation in computer science education
each year 14 000 Chicago public school
students graduate with at least one year
of computer science this is the result
of a graduation requirement that CPS
enacted in 2016. the foundational course
that most students completed to fulfill
the requirement is exploring computer
science ECS this evaluation of the
impact of the graduation requirement was
framed around the cape framework to
ensure that a district supports equal
outcomes in computer science they need
to develop capacity for schools to offer
computer science increase access to
computer science ensure equal
participation and then examine how
computer science experiences lead to
equal outcomes the analysis was
conducted through a cme-funded summer
fellowship program which included
Advanced graduate students and early
career researchers they found the
following results the ECS professional
development program supported a rapid
expansion of school capacity after the
enactment of the graduation requirement
at the time the graduation requirement
was enacted roughly half of the schools
did not offer any computer science and
two-third did not have sufficient
capacity to support computer science for
all students larger schools with fewer
low-income students and a strong
college-going climate were more likely
to offer computer science just before
the enactment of the graduation
requirement access to computer science
expanded significantly after the
computer science graduation requirement
participation in computer science
significantly increased across all
demographic groups after the graduation
requirement by the time the second
cohort graduated after the requirement
the demographics of students taking
computer science matched the
demographics of the district students's
experiences with ECS led to equivalent
course performance between students
taking ECS before and after the
enactment of the graduation requirement
the number of students pursuing computer
science Pathways in CPS doubled after
the enactment of the graduation
requirement end quote that summarizes
paper into a single sentence I'd say
that this paper explores the impact of
computer science graduation requirements
in Chicago public schools now if you
want to find a direct link to this paper
itself make sure you check out these
show notes at jaredolui.com and just go
to the Computer Science Education
content on there there's a bunch of
content in terms of gaming and drumming
content so check out that if you're
interested in it but make sure you check
out the cska podcast shown notes you can
even just click the link in the app that
you're listening to the song it'll take
you directly to this so you can read
this paper which I do highly recommend
doing so the intro this paper discusses
how they were one of the first districts
to adopt the exploring computer science
curriculum this was in 2012 and so they
did a four year pilot program and then
in 2016 they required that all students
participate in ECS exploring computer
science as a graduation requirement and
so this paper is going to explore what
is the impact of that so in section 1.1
which is titled the Chicago Alliance for
equity and computer science they kind of
talk about the history of the program so
if you're interested in that I highly
recommend checking out that particular
paper or rather that section of the
paper now section two is on the methods
so the data that they use was student
demographic data computer science
enrollment and outcomes teacher
demographic data teacher preparation
data and data about school
characteristics and that is directly
pulled from page two and on page three
they talk about the cape framework which
is organized around four different
questions and so the cape framework is
an acronym so c-a-p-e so C stands for
capacity a stands for Access P stands
for participation and E stands for
experience so here are the four kind of
guiding questions for this particular
paper quote how did cps's capacity to
offer computer science change after the
graduation requirement was enacted two
how did access to computer science
courses changed after the graduation
requirement was enacted three how did
participation in computer science change
after the graduation requirement was
enacted four how consistent were the
student experience in and outcomes from
their computer science courses before
and after the enactment of the
graduation requirement to answer this
question they had six different fellows
come in and these were like early career
Scholars graduate students and so they
kind of like each would work on a
different section of the cape framework
and analyze it all right so Section 3 is
on the results and 3.1 talks about the
graduations requirements impact on
capacity so prior to the graduation
requirement they had a net average of
about 15 computer science teachers
being added each year either through
professional development or through
earning some kind of an endorsement of
teaching computer science but in the
first four years after the graduation
requirement Chicago Public Schools
averaged a net increase of 38 teachers
per year either through professional
development or through an endorsement so
that rate was more than double what they
were previously doing before the
graduation requirements so they're able
to do better with meeting capacity
within that period of time after the
graduation requirement in addition by
which is a school type that is kind of
like discussed in the paper itself 82 of
them were able to meet capacity and this
Compares with in 2015 2016 it was 22 and
then four years prior that it was only
three percent so that's a huge increase
if we go back uh several years from
three percent all the way up to 82
percent and then for the other school
types in the district the stem schools
had 100 capacity and then the selective
schools had all but one school so this
was around 90 capacity now here's an
interesting quote from page five to
consider quote it is important to note
that CPS would not have been able to
achieve the goal of computer science for
all students if it had relied solely on
fully endorsed computer science teachers
in the first year of the taste of
computing project one capacity to offer
computer science was limited more than
two-thirds of the computer science
teachers were fully endorsed by the time
the computer science graduation
requirement was enacted in school year
science teachers were fully endorsed by
the time the first cohort of students
subject to the graduation requirements
graduated in 2020 less than 40 percent
of the teachers were fully endorsed end
quote so when it started it was more
than 66 percent and now after a few
years of the graduation requirement it's
all the way down to 40 percent so
meaning the majority of the teachers do
not have like full computer science
endorsements which full disclosure I
don't have a computer science
endorsement when I was still teaching in
Arizona this was several years ago they
did not have have a computer science
endorsement so it was basically for the
Elementary classes that I was working in
and the K-8 classes so kindergarten all
the way up through eighth grade they did
not have any kind of requirement so it
was really kind of up to the principal
or superintendent or whomever to
determine whether or not I was qualified
enough to actually teach in the
classroom but now they do have a
computer science endorsement in Arizona
and I haven't signed up for it because
I'm not teaching in the classroom
anymore and I don't really need to worry
about that so if your initial reaction
is I don't know about this if they're
not endorsed then they can't be good
well I mean maybe it kind of depends I
know some people who are endorsed that
aren't very good at whatever subject
area and then people who are not that
are phenomenal at it some of the best
teachers I've had don't even have
degrees in whatever subject area they
are teaching or in teaching in general
so section 3.2 talks about how the
graduation requirement impacted access
to computer science courses so let's
take a look at this figure two and this
is a figure from page six so when they
enacted graduation requirement 100 of
the stem classes the students had access
to it okay that continued throughout but
for the selective schools about 90 of
them only had access but by the end of
this uh current study or where this was
published it is a hundred percent and
then for the neighborhood schools it was
like around 45 or so of students had
access and then it goes all the way up
to just under 100 in the in neighborhood
schools at the time that they published
this article now here's an interesting
caveat to that dative this is from page
six quote on the strength of cps's
capacity building efforts the number of
schools offering at least one computer
science class in the year after the
graduation requirement was enacted more
than doubled by school year 2020 all the
stem schools all the selective
enrollment schools and all but one of
the neighborhood schools offered at
least one computer science class the one
neighborhood school that did not offer a
computer science class instead waived
all their students due to their particip
innovation in CTE programs end quote
okay so CTE is Career and Technical
education at least that's the most
common acronym for that if you're
unfamiliar with it all right so in other
words basically everybody would have had
it but that one school happened to waive
it because maybe they're doing similar
Concepts or practices in their CTE
requirements I don't know so as a result
of this graduation requirement and as a
result of the capacity building efforts
basically this said that all of the high
schools had access to computer science
classes okay so if we have the teacher
capacity if we have access through the
courses being offered how does this
impact the participation after the
graduation requirement was enacted so
this is where question 3.3 comes into
play on page seven so what they expected
is that if everyone was required to
participate then the demographics of the
classes should reflect the demographics
of the school which makes sense because
everyone's basically being required to
be there here's a quote from page seven
quote the overall participation rates
were 84 percent and 80 33 respectively
roughly 17 percent of each cohort were
eligible to receive a waiver from
completing a computer science class
those students were participating in a
CTE program the IB program or similar
career oriented or College Prep program
end quote now when it came to the
demographics when it was race and
ethnicity the numbers that were before
this graduation requirement was enacted
the Asian population was higher than
average and then when it was enacted it
mostly was about the same or equal
representation that matched the
demographics of the district itself
quote with a few exceptions highlighted
in red the percent representation of
Asian black Hispanic and white students
taking computer science was within two
percent of their representation in CPS
overall end quote in other words it was
like pretty close so that's great now
when it came to the gender demographics
they noted that consistently before and
after the graduation requirements that
there were higher percentage or
population of males attending these
classes than there were for female and
there was no demographic data data for
non-binary students which makes sense
because a lot of school districts don't
collect that and even though I don't
appreciate it as a non-binary individual
that's just kind of how things are at
this moment so if you are also a
researcher I highly recommend
encouraging districts to collect
non-binary or trans data outside of just
male and female for gender here's a
quote from pages eight and nine quote
throughout the period prior to the
enactment of the graduation requirement
there was an average of 8.5 percent
difference between the representation of
computer science students who identified
as female and the representation of all
CPS students who identified as female
after the enactment of the computer
science graduation requirement the Gap
in representation had narrowed to two
percent or less end quote so that's also
an excellent little bit of data right
there one of the things that I really
appreciate about this report is they
talk about students with their
disabilities participating in the
computer science classes so this is in
section 3.3.1 so they specifically focus
on six different categories and this is
from page nine the categories were
autism deaf or hearing impaired
emotional disability intellectual
disability learning disability and other
health impairment overall after the
graduation requirements there was a
significant increase statistically
speaking between all of these different
categories however here's a quote from
page 10 quote five of the six most
prevalent categories of IEPs had
equivalent participation rates for the
first cohort subject to the graduation
requirement and were close to the cohort
participation rate for all CPS students
students with emotional disabilities had
lower cohort participation rates than
the other five most prevalent IEP
categories in the first two cohorts
subject to the graduation rate end quote
so in other words the emotional
disability students did not have as much
participation in the computer science
classes as the other disability
categories and that's really interesting
I'm curious as to why that is the case
all right so now let's talk about the
graduation requirements impact on
experience so this is 3.4 part so here's
a quote from page 10 quote computer
science course grades were higher than
the other subject areas during the time
when computer science was an elective
class did the rapid expansion of
computer science in CPS impact the
quality of outcomes that have been
achieved under the taste of computing
program end quote
I am not sure what they mean by that
particular statement there and the
reason why I'm kind of like raising some
questions there is I'm not sure how you
can really compare across different
subject areas across different grades
Etc it doesn't necessarily mean that
like students enjoy it more or are doing
better or worse it could just mean that
like the assessments that are being used
are easier or harder in some subject
areas than in others I don't know
there's too many variables here or
factors to consider that I'm not really
sure what that means but they're citing
a paper that I probably need to read in
order to really understand what those
like two sentences mean but diving a
little bit deeper in 3.4.1 they talk
about the comparison of exploring
Computer Science grades before and after
the graduation requirement so they found
no statistically significant difference
between the before and after grades for
exploring computer science which I'm I
mean that makes sense I don't know why a
graduation requirement would necessarily
impact the grades in there but to argue
with myself it prior to this it was
students who were electing to take it
and now it was students who were
required to attend this and those are
two very different categories so when
you are teaching a class where students
are electing to participate or are
paying to participate that is like night
and day different than students who are
required to be there in terms of like
whether or not they're going to be
engaged so that is an actually very
interesting finding because it
demonstrates that exploring computer
science whether you choose to be there
or required to be there is an effective
course to participate in and if you want
to learn more about the exploring
computer science curriculum I highly
recommend checking out the interview
that I did with Joanna good it is a
fantastic conversation and I'll include
a link to that in the show notes at
jaredelary.com here's an interesting
quote from page 10 quote fam found
students who identified as female
achieved higher grades in ECS than
students who identify as male students
who identify as Hispanic and black
achieved lower grades than students who
identified as Asian and white end quote
now I can only kind of like speculate as
to why that is but there's a lot of
research that kind of talks about why
different demographic categories perform
better or worse in school in general and
I think those would probably apply here
and as a lot of it just has to do with
like structural inequalities that are
placed into it and here's one more quote
on this particular discussion from page
policy enactment period whether a
teacher was at least partially qualified
correlated with student course grades
since almost two-thirds of the ECS
teachers are endorsed in a subject other
than computer science these results
provide validation for the ECS
professional development model teachers
who participated in the workshop were
able to overall support the same level
of student achievement in ECS as those
teachers who were fully endorsed in
computer science end quote okay and I
having spoken with Joanna good many
times and again interviewed her on the
podcast I really like ECS it sounds
phenomenal but I don't know if we can
necessarily say that it's the
professional development model that led
to this kind of success or if it's
actually the curriculum itself that led
to it and I say this because there are
some curriculum providers and kind of
really any subject area that I'm aware
of where they kind of have like a
curriculum in a box where they advertise
it as well you don't even need to be
qualified to teach this it does it for
you and it takes out all of the
difficulties of the teacher and it makes
it so that students can learn on their
own and so while that makes it a whole
lot easier for the adult in room who is
maybe teaching or not teaching it
doesn't really make it so that it
empowers a teacher to become an expert
in that particular area so in this
particular instance having not gone
through ECS what I don't know is how
much of it is the curriculum itself that
is like making it so that students are
having a great experience with this and
then how much of it is the professional
development that supports the teachers
to be able to teach the curriculum or a
combination of those two and again I
don't know I have a feeling that it's
both and that they both are supporting
this just knowing the people involved
with this particular curriculum who have
created it but I'm not sure but the next
subsection for this particular area is
how the additional courses takings
before and after the enactment of the
graduation requirements so like did
students continue to take computer
science after the graduation requirement
was enacted at a rate that was higher
than before it was enacted here's a
quote from page 11 quote overall about
science class prior to the enactment of
the graduation requirement took an
additional computer science class after
the enactment about 18 percent of
students who completed a computer
science class took an additional
computer science class this increase in
the probability of students taking an
additional computer science class after
the enactment of the computer science
graduation requirement was small but
statistically significant end quote a
little bit further down on that page
quote across all cohorts students who
identified as female were 50 percent
less likely to take additional computer
science courses relative to students who
identify as male in addition students
who identify as Hispanic were 13 less
likely to take additional computer
science coursework relative to students
who identify as students of other racial
and ethnic backgrounds end quote I'm
curious if they were to share the like
the inverse of that the opposite of that
where they're like for different racial
demographics based off of like the data
that they had on here in some of the
earlier sections were Asian students
more likely than other race and
ethnicities to want to participate and I
don't know but going back to the idea
that only 17 participated before the
graduation requirement to then 18 chose
to participate after that that might be
like okay whoop-dee-doo you got like a
one percent increase like what how is
that helpful well when it comes to the
overall numbers if we think about how it
was a small subset of students who are
participating beforehand and then when
the graduation requirement was enacted a
larger population of people even if it
stayed exactly at 17 you're still
getting more students participating and
therefore going to need even more
computer science classes so from an
advocacy standpoint you're increasing
the numbers overall even if you are not
increasing the percentage of people who
participate so in the conclusion the
authors talk about the Prosper framework
which stands for programs research
organizational structure and policy for
Equitable results so I highly recommend
taking a look at this particular section
if you want to learn more about like the
background of how they were doing this
but here's an interesting quote that is
from page 13. quote teachers are the
most important ingredient to success
schools should focus on capacity
building before enacting significant
policies end quote now this really
really resonated with me so I haven't
worked with like teachers around the
country I can say that if you are
obviously I'm going to make a policy
change but you don't have the capacity
in place it's it's the not really going
to go anywhere pretty fast you have to
really hit the ground running so like
when I was still teaching in the K8
classes in Avondale the superintendent
made a shift so that all the K-8
mandatory technology classes were going
to 100 only teach coding classes not to
support this rollout we had to have a
full-time person who was dedicated to
mentoring the computer science teachers
in the district and that ended up being
me in the second and third year that was
in that District but in the first year
it was somebody else and so in order to
support that we had to have constant
professional development for one or
three hours each week to kind of like
dive into the content knowledge to
really understand how to do computer
science before we could understand how
to teach computer science so if you are
really interested in kind of making this
graduation requirement that's great but
you're gonna need to have the capacity
of teachers who can teach this in order
to actually fulfill the uh like demand
that's going to come from this so if
you're going to all of a sudden have
instead of like 20 students
participating you're going to have 100
students participating you're going to
need teachers who are going to be able
to help out with that and so again it
sounds like exploring computer science
is a great option for the classes in
high school I've also heard some good
things about the high school program for
code.org leave it CS discoveries so I
highly recommend taking a look at that
as well but there are many options out
there besides just doing like AP
Computer Science you can do an intro
course into computer science topics or
like an app development course or
whatever there are many different
options out there hopefully this paper
serves as kind of like a potential
framework or a heuristic to think
through if you're going to implement a
graduation requirement in your District
but I want to now to kind of talk about
some of my lingering thoughts and
questions which is something that I like
to do at the end of these solo episodes
so the first question that I have is
just like I wish I had more data to get
more granular about the impact so for
instance what was the impact on students
during high school and after graduation
so how did their participation impact
other subject areas like did their math
scores change at all For Better or For
Worse or did they say the same that
would be really interesting to know
whether or not computer science as a
graduation requirement would have some
kind of an impact on mathematics or
science or I don't know whatever subject
area did this also have any kind of
impact on students pursuing Computing
careers so while only the increase was
from 17 to 18 did was there a higher
likelihood of students who pursued a
Computing career so even if there wasn't
an increase in the number of students
participating in classes after this
integral course maybe it led to a higher
rate of people who ended up pursuing
some kind of a Computing career that
would be really interesting to know how
did this also impact the open job so if
you look several years down the road or
even like a decade from now how would
this impact any of the open jobs in
Computing but then to kind of like argue
with that one of the things that has
been really fascinating to see is the
recent developments with AI in relation
to Art and writing with like chat GPT
and I'm curious are there going to be so
many open jobs in the next decade or two
and I don't know because with chat GPT
it can actually write out some code for
you depending on what kind of a prompt
you give it and so rather than having to
hire I don't know five programmers maybe
you only hire one who is able to kind of
like Outsource some of the writing
process to chat GPT and they kind of do
the refining or the editing of what the
AI develops for them so you only need
one person and maybe you pay them at a
higher rate but it's not as much as if
you had to pay five people I don't know
we're really kind of at the
nascent period of all of this in terms
of AI and creativity and jobs and
whatnot so it'd be really interesting to
see a decade or two from now how things
are going to be impacted but I guess
that also kind of relates to one of the
bigger arguments or rationales for why
some people think computer science needs
to be in the classroom is jobs well if
there are not jobs down the road what is
the advocacy like headline for Computer
Science Education are we going to need
one is computer science education going
to be something that should be a core
requirement I don't know maybe it's
going to be computational literacies
like I talked about in a previous
podcast episode unpacking Cafe and
Proctor's paper on that particular topic
which is kind of like a more nuanced
discussion on computational thinking so
I highly recommend checking out that
episode if you have not done so yet I'll
include a link to that in the show notes
at jaredolary.com so another question
that I have or a lingering thought is
how did this course require environment
negatively impacts students so were
there less electives or less of some
other requirements like did they have
one less math requirement like for
instance when I was in high school I
took two math classes in my junior year
and the one of the reasons why is
because I took a math classes like
pre-calc or something and then the
computer science class counted as a math
credit so I was able to fulfill another
credit by taking computer science maybe
they instead of having like four math
requirements they only had three and
then they replaced it or maybe they
added it in addition to that if that's
the case did that then take away from
another elective so like for myself it
was very hard my freshman and sophomore
more year to have electives because I
was in band and I was going to be in
band all four years and so that really
limited the number of electives that I
could take and it made it so that I
could only take like typing class I
think my freshman year and had no other
electives outside of that but maybe they
talk about this in other papers or in
other writings but I I don't know based
off of what I read and maybe I missed it
so another question that I have is how
might other districts support similar
requirements in their schools so for
example could districts partner with
universities to prepare pre-service
Educators again to build up that
capacity that the authors highly
recommend having or could you partner
with PD providers who teach a person to
fish rather than making you reliant on
buying the same fish so again going back
to like the curriculum in a box like are
you creating a professional development
experience that teaches that content
knowledge and the pedagogical knowledge
that is
inclusive of identities or are you just
providing a curriculum that does all
that for the teacher and then in the end
they don't actually learn the content
knowledge they're just kind of
facilitating without actually being able
to teach anything I don't know so every
district is going to be different in
terms of how they end up implementing
but it's going to be something that
districts will need to consider if
they're going to do some kind of a
graduation requirement how will you be
able to build up that capacity and there
is no right or wrong way to do it it's
just the you gotta spend some time
really sitting through that and thinking
through that the last question that I
got is how might the district have
achieved the same results without the
graduation requirement so it's great
that they had the impact but what other
Solutions might exist without making
schooling even more one size fits all
through more requirements so in other
words instead of making it so that
everybody is kind of like coming out of
high school with the same course
requirements and experiences at the end
of it are there ways that we could have
had the same results without doing
another graduation requirement or
eliminating graduation requirements
altogether across all subject areas and
I know I've talked about this quite a
bit and I currently have not had anyone
on who has argued with me on this so I'm
going to keep making this radical
statement and hope that eventually
somebody is going to come on this
podcast episode and tell me what they
think about why that would not work out
well in the long run to be able to have
individualized or customized or bespoke
curricular experiences in K-12 or even
higher education where students are able
to walk out of it with individualized
expertise rather than having the same
general knowledge as everybody else
around them I think employers are going
to likely want to hire somebody who is
very good at something to be able to do
that thing for their organization rather
than just a generalist where everybody
kind of like who applies knows the same
thing as everybody else but I don't know
I'm I'm not really in that position
where I'm having to make those kind of
decisions or worry about that right now
so that was my kind of quick summary of
this paper itself and then some
lingering questions or thoughts if you'd
like to be a guest on this particular
podcast feel free to contact me at
jaredelary.com there is a contact me
button up there and if you'd be so kind
please consider sharing this episode
with somebody else I really enjoy
creating these podcasts and I'd like to
just kind of share some scholarship and
share some interviews with some
wonderful people with the rest of the
world so if you could share with
somebody else or leave a review or
whatever that would be much appreciated
I have noticed that there have been some
more reviews on other platforms thank
you so much it helps more people find it
but uh just simply liking it or sharing
it retweeting it so we're reposting it
on LinkedIn whatever some great
opportunities to help spread the word
about the free resources at
jaredillary.com and there's going to be
plenty more to come as I've been working
on them uh quite a bit in the last
couple of weeks but I hope you all have
a wonderful week I hope you all stay
safe and stay tuned for next week for
another episode
Article
McGee, S., Dettori, L., & Rasmussen, A.M. (2022). Impact of the CPS Computer Science Graduation Policy on Student Access and Outcomes [report]. Chicago, IL: The Learning Partnership. https://doi.org/10.51420/report.2022.4
Executive Summary
The Chicago Public Schools (CPS) leads the nation in computer science education. Each year 14,000 Chicago Public Schools students graduate with at least one year of computer science. This is the result of a graduation requirement that CPS enacted in 2016. The foundational course that most students completed to fulfill the requirement is Exploring Computer Science (ECS). This evaluation of the impact of the graduation requirement was framed around the CAPE framework. To ensure that a district supports equal outcomes in computer science, they need to develop Capacity for schools to offer computer science, increase Access to computer science, ensure equal Participation, and then examine how computer science Experiences lead to equal outcomes. The analysis was conducted through a CME-funded summer fellowship program, which included advanced graduate students and early career researchers. They found the following results. The ECS professional development program supported a rapid expansion of school Capacity after the enactment of the graduation requirement. At the time the graduation requirement was enacted, roughly half of the schools did not offer any computer science and 2/3 did not have sufficient capacity to support computer science for all students. Larger schools with fewer low-income students and a strong college going climate were more likely to offer computer science just before the enactment of the graduation requirement. Access to computer science expanded significantly after the computer science graduation requirement. Participation in computer science significantly increased across all demographic groups after the graduation requirement. By the time the 2nd cohort graduated after the requirement, the demographics of students taking computer science matched the demographics of the district. Students’ Experiences with ECS led to equivalent course performance between students taking ECS before and after the enactment of the graduation requirement. The number of students pursuing computer science pathways in CPS doubled after the enactment of the graduation requirement.
My One Sentence Summary
This white paper explores the impact of a computer science graduation requirement in Chicago Public Schools.
Some Of My Lingering Questions/Thoughts
What was the impact on students during high school and after graduation?
How did this course requirement negatively impact students?
How might other districts support similar requirements in their schools?
How might the district have achieved the same results without the graduation requirement?
Resources/Links Relevant to This Episode
Other podcast episodes that were mentioned or are relevant to this episode
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