Advice for Novice and Expert CS Educators with Jackie Corricelli

In this interview with Jackie Corricelli, we discuss advice for novice and veteran CS educators, the potential for collaboration between industry and educators, designing for more inclusive CS education, volunteering for CS education organizations, and much more.

  • Welcome back to another episode of the

    CSK8 podcast my name is Jared O'Leary in

    this week's episode I'm interviewing

    Jackie Khor celli in our discussion we

    talked about some advice for both novice

    and veteran si s educators Jackie has a

    ton of excellent tips for everybody as

    she is an award-winning educator

    multiple awards actually we also discuss

    a really interesting idea of the

    potential for collaboration between

    industry and educators so make sure you

    listen to that section as well as some

    design tips for more inclusive CS

    education and a potential for

    volunteering for various organizations

    like the Computer Science Teachers

    Association which Jackie and I are both

    on different state chapter boards those

    are just some of the main topics however

    there are plenty more things that we

    discussed throughout this episode as

    always the show notes can be found in

    the app that you're listening to the

    song by clicking on a link or by

    visiting Ghirardelli recom and there are

    a ton of links in the show notes so for

    example at the beginning Jackie mentions

    a bunch of different ciphers that kids

    are using in a cryptography class and so

    I a link to all of those different

    ciphers so you can learn more about each

    one of them and with all that being said

    we're now going to start with an

    introduction by Jackie hi I'm Jackie

    Shelley it's wonderful to virtually meet

    all of you

    I'm currently a teacher at Connard High

    School in West Hartford Connecticut

    I teach AP computer science principles

    and a brand new course called

    cryptography and cybersecurity that we

    designed from scratch also I'm a member

    of the computer science advisory board

    for the state department of education

    that's a voluntary group I'm the vice

    president for the Connecticut Computer

    Science Teachers Association

    and I'm constantly working on all kinds

    of other projects to just improve equity

    and access to computer science for all

    students an example is that that's going

    on this year is I'm an equity fellow

    computer science teachers association

    and that'll be until July 2020 the

    cryptography part really captured my

    attention what's an example of a project

    that kids would work on in that class

    yeah so they range the big upcoming

    project at the end of the current unit

    is students are picking a classical

    cryptographic algorithm that mattered to

    them for example I would choose Mary

    Queen of Scots cipher which was a

    nomenclature cipher they could choose

    the way the 14th I know a couple

    students mentioned

    the Civil War encryption algorithms then

    they would create a computational

    artifact similar in language to the APCs

    principles exam where they use a

    computational tool to tell a story about

    that algorithm and teach the audience

    about it so it can be fairly unplugged

    meaning that it's really centered on

    programming using the computer as a tool

    the project's could also be really

    focused on programming for the main part

    of the course we're using Python as the

    programming language and so throughout

    the course students are encrypting using

    the encryption algorithms to both

    encrypt and decrypt and also to hack

    different ciphers starting with the

    Caesar cipher and then the affine and

    symbols that I may be mispronouncing

    affine the affine and simple

    substitution cipher the Bayesian a right

    up through public key encryption do you

    happen to have a resource that you could

    point to for people who want to learn

    more about cryptography and whatnot

    cracking codes with Python it's a book

    by Al swag art was the main inspiration

    for this course it's been just a

    wonderful reference for me I would kind

    of cite that book that's a really great

    starting place if you're interested

    awesome I'll link to that in the show

    notes can you tell me the story of how

    you got into computer science education

    Oh totally yeah so I didn't take a

    computer science course at least a true

    computer science course in high school

    or in college when I graduated from the

    University of Connecticut I wasn't even

    quite sure what what computer science

    was I knew that programming was really

    interesting to me but I'm not sure that

    I knew the breadth of computer science

    I'm certain I didn't I was hired to work

    at Raytheon and it was a funny story I

    was at a career fair and there was a

    person who came happened to walk by the

    Raytheon booth and said hey how would

    you like to know how a fax machine works

    I said that sounds cool and I started

    asked a few more questions than that

    that was sort of the start of an

    interview and I ended up there for three

    years as a systems engineer start a

    software and transition to systems I

    used C++ I learned some object-oriented

    programming I my first job was working

    networking so I was doing sitting at a

    bunch of circuit boards sort of stacked

    simulating a navy ship on one side of a

    communication and then a navy ship on

    another side of a communication and we

    were

    signals from one Navy ship to the other

    and seeing if those signals were

    received correctly or not so that was my

    first job

    everything was in hex I had never heard

    of hexadecimal digits and all of the

    programming was done in C++ and so on

    the job training with engineers who were

    just kind enough to be able to help me

    to be able to learn kind of fast forward

    from that three years later I had quite

    a lot of object-oriented design under my

    belt I played a bit with MATLAB and

    played a bit with a bunch of other

    programming languages too and I started

    volunteering some time working at the

    Framingham YMCA in Massachusetts and

    there was a girl her name is Kristy she

    was in elementary school and she was

    learning about fractions and I was

    helping her I was a mathematician and I

    was helping her sort of sitting with her

    to do her mathematics and share her

    confidence was so low and what I was

    really sitting with her and helping her

    to do with C no no this stuff is totally

    attainable it's totally doable here are

    some cool uses for some reasons I was

    talking her about frequencies and

    waveforms and kind of connecting how the

    reciprocal of the frequency is the

    amplitude the height of the wave and

    starting to talk a little bit more about

    how you can do projects with that and

    things like that's that project based

    instruction that's sort of sitting with

    her and learning while doing I sort of

    simulated what I was experiencing as an

    engineer for her and it turns out it

    worked really good for her and I guess I

    got hooked that's how I

    I guess circle back now that's my

    favorite thing to do as a teacher is to

    sit with students and to help them to be

    able to feel what I felt when engineers

    were kind to me and that one-on-one

    apprenticeship style model can be very

    effective yes I'm curious I said I only

    took two classes formally one in high

    school and one during grad school that

    related to computer science outside of

    that it was all informal learning I

    imagine a lot of other educators who are

    new to CSS are trying to figure out how

    do I learn how to program especially

    something like C++ which is like a

    nightmare of syntax compared to some

    other languages what would you recommend

    in terms of advice for how to learn if

    the teacher does not have access to an

    engineer is kind enough to sit down and

    teach them that's a really great

    question I would start by going to some

    trainings there's some really great

    trainings that are out there in 480

    computer science a computer science

    principles and then also

    the other computer science courses that

    are out there - in terms of cryptography

    and cybersecurity I would recommend gen

    cyber it was excellent training for me

    in terms of the APS I think a really

    good idea to start with a ap consultant

    course

    so there's week-long courses all over

    the country that's a really great place

    to start but keep in mind that's gonna

    be focused on you know the AP exam yes

    there's pedagogy in there too you also

    want to sort of beef up by I think

    really to this day every summer I still

    attend some sort of training so just

    never ever stop learning and also I'm

    I'm hoping that this gets released in

    time that it would still be true but

    Coursera offers a ton of courses right

    now they're free given the extra down

    time I guess that people are expected to

    have although I'm not finding I have

    that downtime but I would really

    recommend checking out some of those

    courses kind of depending on how choose

    to learn and how much you have to stay

    at home not everybody can travel to

    training those Coursera courses can

    really help just scratch that itch too

    and then you know there's a ton of

    resources online

    there's website called coding that

    there's another website called repla and

    they come with a ton of supports that

    would help you to be able to learn when

    it comes to the elementary or middle

    school programming there's really great

    resources like your resource Jared on

    scratch boot up right and then there's a

    ton of other resources that are in terms

    of scratch like scratch.mit.edu would

    link you to a ton of great resources and

    again to circle back to the AP computer

    science principles course if scratch is

    your thing beauty and joy of computing

    does use that but then there's a ton of

    other curricula and I wish I wish I had

    more time over the summer I think I'd

    probably go to one of the AP computer

    science principles trainings every

    summer there's so many really good

    endorse providers now for that course I

    think there's a lot of really great

    resources out there yeah the promised

    time yeah yeah I personally learned from

    several different approaches that you

    mentioned so it wasn't just like going

    to one and okay now I know everything I

    need to know it's just continuous

    learning whether it be on YouTube or an

    online course or a physical in-person

    course although there's probably not a

    lot of those going on at the moment all

    things considered can you tell me a

    story about your experiences in

    education that impacts you today

    actually the story of impact that

    so most to me is the one where I know

    that student was successful because

    somehow they grew more confident as they

    were with me and I got to see that

    confidence and then I got to see what

    happened when they left and they were

    able to be successful elsewhere I'm

    gonna tell a story about a student I'm

    not gonna mention her name but when I

    first met her she was a sophomore in an

    honors precalculus course I'm certain

    where she to listen she would know who

    she is when I was brand-new to the

    course or to the school system so I was

    nervous too and she didn't expect me to

    be there she expected her other teacher

    to be there so I'm sure she was nervous

    as well I asked them to each share like

    a fun fact about themselves before we

    move forward and kind of just start the

    year off right and she was so nervous to

    say something that she really burst out

    into tears well I felt terrible but I

    saw I didn't of course press her to keep

    going I said geez I want to get to know

    her more and I want to try to do what I

    can to help and so kind of fast-forward

    her senior year was the first year that

    I offered AP Computer Science a and that

    was the only computer science course

    that she could take and she and I by

    then had a good enough relationship that

    I got her to take the course now fast

    forward after she left AP Computer

    Science a not only was she certain she

    wanted to be a problem solver she wanted

    to study computer science she went on

    and went to a great university to study

    computer science they did well by her

    and she is now working at Google and

    she's in charge of working on the

    YouTube side of Google where she's

    keeping children safe so looking for

    people with bad intentions putting

    things in YouTube videos that shouldn't

    be there and keeping children away from

    being able to see them and her heart was

    always so great you know she was always

    just this amazing person and I just

    think it's really cool that if I can

    help us soon to see how amazing they are

    and give them skills so that they can

    show that to the world that is just the

    best thing and I love hearing from her

    still to this day I'll hear from her

    and each time I talked to her she sounds

    more confident more resilient more

    skilled oh my gosh the skills that she's

    got is amazing and I just I think that's

    that's my favorite thing and she's not

    the only one but she was by far the most

    pronounced in terms of confidence that I

    saw grow probably

    just raw skill ability and she's just a

    problem-solver by nature it was just

    really neat to help her hone those

    skills and then to see her do something

    with them do something great and thrive

    with it it sounds like yeah yeah it's

    it's nice seeing kids how they kind of

    develop over time and then what they do

    when they're outside of school and like

    beyond their education out outside of

    whatever classes you're dealing that's

    one of my favorite parts about like the

    longer I've been in education the more I

    see students as they continue to grow

    and whatnot just like seeing them be

    successful in life and remembering where

    they started and like how they got there

    and whatnot it's a fun journey so if you

    were to go to a brand new school and

    you're asked to design like a brand new

    CS program in terms of like the classes

    and what would you consider for the

    design of that kind of a program in

    terms of like how you would facilitate

    it and like what kind of things students

    would engage in

    the most important thing is to consider

    where you want your students to end up

    and I'm an analytic person by design I

    really like the idea of starting where

    you want to end up and using a structure

    that you trust the computer science

    teachers association has developed a ton

    of outstanding standards that are

    vertically aligned to K through 12 start

    there and the framework is excellent so

    it actually breaks it down by grade

    level what it is that you're hoping that

    students would be able to achieve at

    each grade and it's multiple streams so

    there's some stuff about networking

    there's some stuff about keeping

    students safe online

    all that K through 12 so start there I

    would also really be careful about the

    teachers that you recruit to be able to

    teach these courses it's really

    important that they understand they have

    to have an ongoing commitment to

    learning and they have to have an

    ongoing commitment to equity they have

    to be very aware of the fact that not

    everybody is given an opportunity to

    play with a robot when they're

    celebrating their birthdays or whatever

    holidays matter to their family in fact

    it's a very narrow population of people

    that are given those opportunities and

    as a result that very narrow population

    sometimes appears presents to have more

    Skills than a population that wouldn't

    be given access to those tools kind of

    the second piece of that is those

    students although they may appear more

    confident they may be able to play with

    the tools but that doesn't still even

    mean that they understand what they're

    playing and so again that goes back to

    teacher training and being really

    purposeful who you're deciding to pick

    they can't be fooled by bells and

    whistles or sort of fooled into thinking

    that this is a course where the students

    just simply learn a skill you'd want to

    avoid naming a course after a

    programming skill and instead try to

    name the course after a programming

    topic or concept instead I would avoid

    if you can naming a course robotics and

    instead consider calling it by the grade

    level computer science grade whatever

    and really just try to hit those skills

    that are in the standards for that grade

    level

    now all that aside when you do that not

    every school you know grade 12 for one

    school might be grade 10 for another

    school so look at those standards and

    look at where they end up and if that's

    true then if your grade 12

    might actually be a great 10 student

    then consider looking to colleges for

    those more advanced coursework so for

    example if AP Computer Science a is not

    gonna be a high enough bar for the

    population of students then consider you

    know full stat programming or some of

    the more so consider how you're gonna

    beef those things up to write so then

    once you start with that top level down

    then from there decide who's going to

    teach it and really get that team of

    teachers together and help them to be

    symbols of light symbols of inspiration

    in the school to hopefully spread it and

    integrate it as much as possible

    computer science does not have to be a

    one-off course like you could never

    imagine teaching a science course

    without mathematics I could never

    imagine teaching mathematics without

    some reading I think the same is true

    with computer science and the idea that

    there's a ton of teachers that are doing

    a great job of integrating computer

    science using code.org materials etc

    keep that going but now make it

    purposeful and connect it to curriculum

    too and then the final thing I would

    really recommend that districts do is

    look into something called script

    training script training is just

    outstanding I just attended as a

    facilitator in Denton Texas in January

    we took a district team down there and

    now we're working as a district to be

    able to implement some of the things

    that we learned it is not a one-stop

    solution it's a beginning of your

    district's journey by the time you leave

    you end up with tentative three months

    six month and nine months plan for your

    district to help you to be able to move

    forward so again it's kind of first up

    if you don't have enough time or you

    know to be able to do all the things I

    said first stop is those K through 12

    standards and frameworks second stop be

    real careful about teachers and who

    you're hiring or looking for to be able

    to do this encourage teachers to kind of

    integrate encourage them to experiment

    and remember equity remember that not

    every student has had access to these

    resources and be mindful of it might

    might be really intimidating for some

    students and frankly some ste teachers

    and that's okay so kind of be kind and

    let those teachers be inspiration to try

    to spread this all over your district in

    your schools and your kids will thank

    you and your parents will thank you and

    multiple other guests have also

    recommended scripts and a couple of my

    co-workers our scripts were sealed

    so they really enjoy the process I've

    heard many good things about it but I

    haven't participated in it so what are

    the things that you talked about earlier

    was related to advice to new CSS Gators

    like how to learn and whatnot but I'm

    wondering what recommendations you might

    give to a veteran si s educator who's

    been doing this for a while and has like

    gone to all of the workshops and whatnot

    I'm like cool I have a firm

    understanding but what next how can I

    continue to improve what I'm doing

    Coursera is really nice for that I would

    still suggest back to Coursera I'm

    having really great results playing a

    bit with some of the more advanced

    Coursera courses they're the you know

    some of the best universities across the

    country taught by some of the best

    teachers it's a really great reference

    I'd also recommend some businesses allow

    teachers to coop over the summer over

    the summer if you've got free time again

    I know that that's a tough thing but you

    know consider interning essentially or

    volunteering your time or certainly

    working for payment remember you know as

    teachers teaching job but we have a

    skill set that might be quite marketable

    if we were to you know I'm not

    suggesting that this is what we should

    do permanently but I think some

    businesses might be really interested in

    hiring us even if it's temporarily and

    imagine what you learn using industry

    practices and also industry equivalent

    tools you know you'll come back to the

    classroom like we did after student

    teaching going off Wow

    I understand so much more now the

    classroom moves so much slower for me

    because I'm wiser you know so I think I

    think that's probably the next step to

    be able to get you know some actual

    agile training maybe even attending boot

    camps I know that those are kind of

    sprouting up all over the country to

    allow people to be able to get training

    that want to transition into software we

    have to be honest and say this is to

    help our students but that would be

    really helpful and then the other side

    of that is the computer science teachers

    association if you were to become a

    member and that would be for all

    teachers you know not just the teachers

    that are more advanced but also

    beginning teachers you would find

    comrades or friends and other districts

    that maybe are doing things different

    from what you're doing and you'd be able

    to learn from them and in addition you'd

    have a chance to give back a little bit

    you know someone helped you along the

    way

    that's a really nice thing about

    computer science teachers and

    association is it gives you an

    opportunity to give back a bit and to be

    able to help other people and helping

    others as you know is a great way to

    learn right yeah and especially if

    you're a veteran educator if you can run

    for a board position on your local

    chapter I highly recommend that so we're

    both on boards and our own states and I

    really enjoy my experience with it and I

    imagine the same for you agree and then

    the kind of the final extension of that

    to an additional extension is the AP

    readings if you're an AP teacher

    consider participating in AP computer

    science principles a we're always

    looking for readers I've been a table

    leader for a couple years now I was

    going to be a question leader this year

    but everything is changing a bit with

    the reading you know so yeah the AP

    program is excellent they have wonderful

    training and becoming a reader is just

    an excellent way to learn again for the

    same networking benefits but also just I

    think there's something really special

    about getting yourself onto the rubric

    and then learning from whatever the

    biases you might be coming into that

    problem with and then once you're on

    rubric hitting a rhythm and knowing that

    you're reading all students kind of

    fairly and equitably it's really

    excellent training yeah I think that's

    great advice for AP and I really liked

    your earlier suggestion of kind of

    getting some industry experience knowing

    where kids are gonna go if you are going

    to be preparing kids for a career in

    computer science like that's invaluable

    it's a completely different thing to

    understand just the content area versus

    the content area in a context in which

    you actually use it in an industry

    setting I really hope industries are

    listening to because we definitely need

    those opportunities even if it's two to

    three weeks it can you imagine what a

    difference it would make for teachers or

    you know internships

    you know there's businesses all around

    us where we're working and you know we

    can work from home too

    it would be amazing for businesses to

    kind of see that as an opportunity and

    then you know lo and behold those

    students will see that hey there

    teachers working for this business well

    that says something really powerful

    about that business that hopefully will

    open a portal for not just the teachers

    but also the students to be able to

    contribute sooner have internships

    sooner I'd love to have more back and

    forth between local businesses and the

    education guild so that we can support

    and help each other and then have a more

    qualified and better prepared workforce

    for them yeah so you had

    mentioned integrating through like

    code.org and whatnot I'm wondering what

    advice you would give to educators who

    are starting to teach CS and are

    interested in integrating it into a

    subject area outside of just CS by

    itself again I think there's a whole

    host of things that you could look at

    what's happening in the field that

    you're in right now and talk to somebody

    who's doing that job and ask them how is

    computer science that's Lansing them

    you'll get great answers invite them in

    as guest speakers for your students so

    that you and your students can both hear

    and then use that as inspiration for

    your first project that's an excellent

    starting place an example is I have a

    colleague that teaches right next door

    to me he's a social studies teacher he

    invited a data science person he teaches

    political consultant to come in and that

    person was in charge of polling and kind

    of getting a pulse on what people think

    and he used data science to be able to

    analyze brought in that information talk

    to him he and this social studies

    government teacher was just blown away

    by the amount of computer science so

    then he started to dig into the data he

    started to use some tools like

    gapminder.org really helped him to be

    able to get a pulse on like social

    issues and once he started playing with

    gapminder.org that was sort of the

    beginning of his journey in helping

    students to be able to see where

    patterns might be able to be found in

    data well that can lead you to making

    social points that you couldn't made if

    it wasn't for that data and those

    stories then become a convincing

    argument to help people to be able to

    influence positive change so that's one

    example

    I really think two friendships can make

    a huge difference small conversations

    with colleagues that are open and kind

    again at Connard hi I work with a

    teacher who is also upstairs

    she teaches Spanish and she was open

    enough during the hour of code to use

    the Moana hour of code app and then to

    teach her children how to do direction

    in Spanish using that hour of code she's

    just a light you know so these and this

    social studies teacher again alight and

    students appreciate it so much because

    they see now the computer science it's

    not one course and they know this they

    use these tools all the time it gives

    them a bit of a power a bit of a leg up

    for

    to be able to use it as a tool with

    something that they love maybe even

    something that surprised them a little

    bit programming graphing calculators in

    the high school level for high school

    mathematics courses can be you know a

    source of light for younger students

    encouraging them to when they do use an

    image in a PowerPoint slide

    they don't just simply use it but they

    also cite it and include proper

    citations when a younger child is going

    online do not use your last name they

    should never use their last names again

    in terms of just staying secure and safe

    online and the teachers model that

    behavior that you also cite images that

    we use in our slide

    I think this is a missing please and

    thank you like we would never for a

    kindergarten class not say to our

    students hey make sure you say please

    and thank you when you're asking for

    that or is that a proper way to ask for

    something isn't there a word that's

    missing you know and I think the same is

    true with you know computer science and

    being safe online did you just put your

    last name or is that safe how did you

    send that email to that teacher is that

    an appropriate way to communicate to

    them is there a period at the end of

    that sentence

    you know but I think I do think that

    it's sort of the missing really large

    elephant there's a reason why it's

    missing it can be scary for teachers and

    it can be scary a bit for students the

    whole point of Education is to help

    students to make good choices based on

    knowledge not fear and so if we can

    model that for them then we're closer to

    I think helping them to be able to work

    through helping our society work through

    the issues that we might be still having

    with computer science yeah I'm curious

    what are some potential pitfalls that

    other educators should look out for when

    they're trying to do some integration

    that it's okay if you don't know if

    you're unsure I think a lot of teachers

    and with good reason used to being

    experts in their field and that's a

    beautiful thing there is no way to be an

    expert in the field and there's no way

    to produce a perfect product when you're

    teaching computer science it's a

    constant reinvention it's a constant

    learning often the students because they

    have more time to create and they have

    more time to learn than we do we're sort

    of guiding them and we're helping them

    and we're learning and that's okay

    that's completely normal and it can be

    really I think relieving it takes a lot

    of pressure off and it also is really

    joyful to join your student

    in the learning process as opposed to

    being their one source of knowledge yeah

    I'd like to share so like I think it was

    every Thursday in my classes it was like

    we'd start with debugging and I would

    share either a bug that I was personally

    working on and like here's how I solve

    this particular bug I was trying to

    figure out or I would showcase here's a

    famous bug in a video game then here's

    what might have gone wrong with this and

    how it relates to the projects that

    you're working on I think kind of

    sharing that and just being human and

    being like look I make mistakes too I'm

    constantly problem solving just like you

    it kind of normalizes it and makes it

    less scary and hopefully more accepting

    because even if you don't want it you're

    gonna run into bugs mm-hmm

    so you mentioned equity earlier and I'm

    wondering what you wish more CS

    educators understood about equity and

    inclusivity in CS education so my

    parents they never learned how to swim

    and so when we would go to the beach or

    we would go to the and they and they

    learn how to tread water ish but because

    they grew up in northern Maine they

    didn't really need to swim and they

    didn't necessarily have access to pools

    or any place to learn how to swim and

    that meant that when we'd go to the

    beach or we go to the water with any of

    those family members there was a lot of

    fear and I didn't judge them for that

    because I thought to myself that's not

    their fault they just they don't know

    they've never seen it if you see an

    animal you know like a dog that is

    afraid to go up to a balloon because it

    scares them you know you wouldn't sort

    of get them closer to the balloon in a

    in a mean way or you know sort of set up

    a roomful of Blues you would you know

    sort of gently maybe kindly give them a

    balloon that's a little deflated maybe

    give them a lot of treats as they get

    closer and closer to that balloon that's

    the only kind way to be able to help any

    animal or when you have somebody that's

    afraid of swimming like I said the right

    way to piano that is to be sensitive to

    that and I think right now for computer

    science because people's experiences are

    so different

    if somebody's never studied computer

    science until they've gone to high

    school that they can look at the room of

    computers and it can be a bit like a

    room of balloons for that person and so

    first I think in terms of equity

    exposure is

    but it needs to be kind and fair

    exposure that's positive with lots of

    access points lots of rooms for students

    to have success because again I think

    there's a whole host of reasons why

    people wouldn't necessarily have

    experience with computer science and

    some of it is just it's not their fault

    and so as educators I think we need to

    be really really sensitive to that and

    then we need to be also sensitive to the

    fact that students reactions to that

    situation meaning computer science might

    be really different when some students

    are really confused they might act out

    or they might be disrespectful or they

    might shy away they might be really

    hesitant to respond because of

    confidence issues and none of those

    things mean that they can't do it it

    just means that they need different

    support they need more sensitivity they

    need more access points they need a

    different way to be able to see

    computers and there's some things that

    teachers can do to really just even

    soften the environment so I think be

    wary of the way classrooms are decorated

    consider putting things near the

    computer that sort of soften it up or

    even if it seems ridiculous I have

    stuffed animals all over my room and

    some students just they reach into this

    vat of stuffed animals and they bring

    them over to the computer and they talk

    to them if they're having programming

    difficulties and it seems so silly but

    it's really wonderful and there's some

    students that I know they're having a

    difficulty if they'll ask them which

    stuffed animal would you like are you

    feeling the Unicorn so bring those over

    and give them something that's different

    that's a little softer a little kinder

    to be able to help them to be able to

    feel good about computer science and to

    not be in - I really I think those those

    couple things would probably work at any

    grade level and like I said in terms of

    curriculum designing many on-ramps

    designing many ways for students to be

    creative you know students maybe they're

    passionate about arts give them art

    projects different ways that they can be

    able to create using computer science

    needing music is they give them a way to

    be able to create using music and it's

    okay that maybe you don't know yet how

    to do that if you have a student who is

    motivated by athletics or a student

    that's motivated by the health field if

    that's sort of their draw they will find

    ways to be able to learn that and

    they'll blow you away with what they can

    do so I'd recommend trying to define

    different access points for students and

    then trying to do what you can to

    decorate the room and then

    be careful about how you recruit for

    your classes especially if it's optional

    in the high school level if you asked

    students at universally do you want to

    take computer science often you'll get

    the overzealous and overconfident

    students that will say yes that doesn't

    necessarily mean they should maybe

    they'd be great at the course and I mean

    I think all students of course should

    take computer science but you know not

    every computer science course and then

    you know you'll have some students that

    really should feel confident but they

    don't so just be really careful about

    how you recruit and I think one-on-one

    conversations with teachers and students

    do you say you believe in a student if

    you say that they can do it they will

    believe you I have zero doubt and how do

    you recruit kids

    if you've haven't had them in a class

    before and you don't really know them

    are you going out and speaking to other

    teachers and like hey who do you think

    would be a great fit for this kind of

    class or what advice would you give my

    colleague in my school and in my system

    they're really amazing support that way

    so my department head allows me to work

    with my colleagues to present in their

    math courses so in that way we're

    speaking to really close to a hundred

    percent of the populations I bring

    students because they're much better

    than I am at explaining what is this

    computer science thing computer science

    in our school is taught in multiple

    departments so that's the other thing

    like try not to be so weary about which

    department can or cannot teach it I

    think my dream is that all departments

    eventually will be able to teach

    computer science it's probably the right

    solution but in the meantime in our

    school we teach it in the technology and

    the mathematics department but we

    advertise so I delivering to all the

    math courses but we're advertising all

    the courses so and students are talking

    about all the courses this to them it's

    just computer science who cares which

    department is teaching it you know that

    can really help in terms of recruitment

    the word-of-mouth students sort of

    explaining what the courses are and then

    from there we encourage one-on-one

    conversations with teachers so each

    teacher sort of should be meeting

    one-on-one with students to be able to

    explain to them what is this computer

    science thing and also how it would help

    them to be successful a lot of good

    advice in there and earlier when I had

    asked you about your like ideal UCS

    program if you design one you mentioned

    recruiting teachers what kind of advice

    might you give for how to recruit CS

    educators so you want to choose

    educators that understand that they're

    gonna always

    learning they're never going to be able

    to put this curriculum into a box and

    say oh okay next year I'll do it exactly

    the same way so you want someone who's

    got this joy for learning right that it

    would never be happy to box their

    curriculum and put it on the shelves

    they would always want to join their

    students to be able to learn I would

    really recommend if districts are

    looking for a resource to figure out

    what is a great computer science teacher

    the CSTA the computer science teachers

    association just released the really

    great standards document you could

    certainly refer to that document that

    would really give you a sense sort of

    the equivalent you know they have those

    same sets of standards for what makes a

    great math teacher or what makes a great

    English teacher they have the equivalent

    that the computer science teachers

    association just created for computer

    science teachers that would be a really

    great starting point and that's the SDC

    sta-1 where they like jointly created it

    correct yep and it's excellent I just

    came out fall 29 they're working on like

    creating resources to help PD providers

    kind of prepare for that I'm on a team

    that's helping with that so it's great

    how much support there is for not just

    they're not just like okay here are the

    new standards but they're like actively

    trying to help teachers with these

    standards and preparing for it but I

    agree I really like the the teacher

    standards for SDC SDA and then the

    second resource might be the script

    rubrics one of the aspects that a

    district should look at is curriculum

    and teacher training and each of those

    are detailed out so sort of spread out

    over what's a beginning skill for a

    district what's an advanced skill I'm

    using the wrong language but they really

    just move what does it mean to be to

    have a good group of teachers teaching

    computer science grades K through 12

    from beginning to proficient and then

    advanced and so it would really help a

    district to be able to see what it

    probably maybe looks like now and then

    what it could look like from a district

    perspective speaking of the CSTA earlier

    you'd mentioned that we're both on

    boards for our state chapters I'm

    curious what have you learned as a

    result of your experience I'm

    volunteering for organizations like CSD

    a I've learned that as a teacher that

    it's really important to do what you can

    to help other teachers but to also set

    boundaries the other I guess the second

    piece that I've learned is to realize

    that there's a lot of work that needs to

    be done and there's not enough people

    right now

    that are stepping up and working hard to

    do it and if more people would step up

    then we would just have a much better

    product for students and for the future

    I know that there are so many amazing

    computer science teachers and I know

    part of the problem is everybody's just

    keeping their head afloat right we're

    all just doing what we can in our lives

    to feel like we're getting by and life

    is so busy but if you would be able to

    spare a moment to be able to help the

    Computer Science Teachers Association is

    a really great organization and we need

    help there's more jobs than we can do

    and it would be really amazing if more

    people would participate actively take

    on those leadership roles help with the

    website help with training I'm certain

    if you talk computer science longer than

    two years you know something that would

    help other people and if you're just

    starting computer science then we really

    need your help too because we want to

    maintain that that perspective right we

    don't want to lose so everybody could

    really contribute so much by becoming an

    active member I really hope that more

    people will yeah and the questions that

    like a new CSS occator would ask can

    help refine some of the supports that

    are provided by veteran educators and

    people who do volunteer it's a 100%

    voluntary right at the state level so

    you go because your heart's in it right

    and I know so many teachers have their

    heart in it

    so bring that to the CSTA join us that

    would be really great more people would

    really really help us and it would be

    more fun too yeah I agree and the more

    perspectives at the table the better I

    was just gonna say I don't want to I the

    computer science teacher Association

    they're very involved we've done a lot

    you know it's just I think more people

    would be great I volunteer at like CSTA

    and some other organizations but then I

    also volunteer like at Habitat for

    Humanity on the weekend to like help

    build houses at least before the

    lockdown from kovat and whatnot we were

    doing that but what's interesting is one

    of the team leaders there is a

    researcher and he was saying that

    volunteerism across the nation has been

    down in the last few years so there's

    not enough people doing it I don't know

    if it's just people don't realize that

    they can do it or if it's just not

    enough advocacy from organizations like

    asking for people to help out but

    there's certainly a lot of opportunities

    that can be done in the world of CS

    education for volunteering and helping

    anything some of it is just that people

    teachers are so busy yeah I completely

    understand that yep yeah and I mean on

    that note like given the the various

    like demands and pressures of being in

    education how do you try and stave off

    that burnout and how are you taking care

    of yourself like we're recording this at

    the end of March and things are chaotic

    at the moment in in the US so what are

    you doing to kind of like help yourself

    so that way you can help others he got

    into this computer science thing well my

    daughter was three years old she's now

    she's she's the reason why I still

    firmly believe all students should be

    able to take computer science in my mind

    I want her to have an experience that

    was different and better than my

    experience was with computer science and

    and that's already to some extent

    happening for her but I have this strong

    feeling that that the work is just never

    done and so I guess that that's where

    the flame comes from as far as the

    balance I think it's really important

    everyday for you to schedule a little

    sanity time for yourself as best as you

    can yeah I think physical activity can

    make a huge difference in your mental

    well-being and your mental state I

    really try to exercise three four or

    five times a week if I can that makes a

    huge difference for me and I try to take

    time to do the things that really

    motivate me and make me happy like

    spending time with my family and friends

    doing crafts even if that means I can't

    do the work that needs to get done for

    next week or even for tomorrow it's okay

    that work is not going anywhere I think

    we've got to take time for ourselves or

    like you said we will burn out I've also

    you know if it's not required for

    tomorrow

    then it's it's optional as best as I can

    however I do do this thing called touch

    paper once so if I see an email or if I

    you know see a paper if I can't

    accomplish I really try to see it do it

    address it and move on as opposed to

    hemming and hawing you know as best as I

    can you can't always do that but you

    know like if it's a big report or a big

    grant you have to revisit

    again but if it's something that I can

    read process once that's saves time

    versus reading and processing again and

    again every time you read an email you

    have to take more time to process it

    those are just a couple of tips but you

    know exercise I think is one of the most

    important things and time with people

    that you love time with your family your

    friends can really make a difference

    yeah especially in these times yeah yeah

    those are really good suggestions and I

    also follow a lot of those especially

    the idea of just like touching the paper

    once it's it's very helpful so you're

    not just constantly going back to the

    same thing over and over and wasting

    your mental energy on it do you have any

    questions for myself for to the field at

    large the question I always like to ask

    people is you know was there a teacher

    was there someone that inspired you what

    was it about them that do you think it's

    shaped who you are in computer science

    as a computer science teacher now and

    yeah from my standpoint I've had a lot

    of really good educators in my life that

    I borrow bits and pieces from like oh I

    really love that this person was great

    at this and I'm gonna incorporate that

    in my classroom but I've also had some

    really problematic experiences in

    education where I've seen things done

    and I go I'm gonna do the exact opposite

    of that because of X Y MZ so with both

    ends of a continuum I'm drawing from

    them and learning lessons from and

    trying to incorporate it into the

    classroom but it wasn't necessarily like

    one person that I'm like I'm really

    trying to model everything that they're

    doing it's like oh I love that this

    person is fantastic at this and I didn't

    try and incorporate that into my class

    but much like with the content knowledge

    that my pedagogy is just like constantly

    evolving I'm always learning new things

    and so as I meet more educators and like

    through these interviews and like I go

    into conferences when they're in person

    and things like that like learning for

    more people I just borrowed bits and

    pieces from them so what are you

    learning right now right now I'm

    learning like from a personal level how

    to deal more with uncertainty because of

    obviously like March or 2020 things are

    uncertain in terms of what's the US and

    the world gonna look like a month from

    now or six months from now

    professionally speaking right now I'm

    working on a project for a grant for

    Wyoming where I'm creating the

    curriculum is going to integrate

    computer science with social studies

    specifically the indian for all

    standards so we're working with the Wind

    River Northern Arapaho and Eastern

    Shoshone tribes and the projects that

    I'm creating are going to be related to

    those tribes and like the kids on the

    reservation are going to use them and

    then eventually it's going to be

    disseminated across the state and then

    across like worldwide so I'm personally

    working on how do I find meaningful and

    interesting ways of connecting social

    studies standards with computer science

    standards and then today I was actually

    looking at English and language arts

    standards so like how can we make these

    stories that relate to tribal stories

    that are going to be then used in some

    kind of a computer science project that

    kids would find interesting to them and

    is culturally relevant and meaningful to

    them so like that's the biggest thing

    that I'm working on is that that area

    what about for you was there any

    educator are there things that you're

    personally working on I'm learning how

    to balance right now on a personal I

    think my whole approach to teaching has

    changed within two weeks right so how do

    I make videos I know in my mind what

    should be more important is how my

    students are learning however there's a

    lot of time spent on how can I help them

    to get to the classes that I'm offering

    online how do I support them if they're

    not making it there what does that look

    like how can i what can I do what can I

    do to you know if they're not showing up

    how can I help them to want to show up

    you know right and then also how can I

    make videos that aren't completely lame

    but an hour less than five minutes but

    that that do the job to help them that

    they would want to be able to dig in

    just to learn like that's basically

    we're asking them to learn not because

    of a grade not because we're gonna check

    a box because they showed up but because

    it's just joyful to learn it's a

    challenge I think because for many of

    them that's not been their approach

    where's what I'm learning I'm returning

    to knitting like so I knitted quite a

    lot when I was maybe like maybe eight

    ten years ago and so I'm relearning

    those stitches kind of for fun because

    I'd like to try to learn how to knit the

    sweater or something a little bit bigger

    but I'm sort of building up to that in

    terms of computer science I am

    continuing to learn more

    more Python languages their treasure

    troves if you never run out of things to

    do with them right there's an interview

    that I did with and gun that hasn't

    released yet and she talked about how

    there's a lot of computer science in

    knitting and in like the stitch work

    that she does and how you're basically

    working through an algorithm and whatnot

    it's it's interesting and I hadn't ever

    thought of it that way

    I don't know if you ever looked at your

    knitting as computer science and like

    how they intersect in various ways yeah

    I have a really big creative side so it

    just scratches yeah you could totally

    see it as a problem is it's a little

    messier than I would a computer you know

    if you drop a restart the program so

    before we go I'm wondering if you could

    share where people could go to connect

    with you online and the organizations

    that you work with I have no social

    media except for LinkedIn I've just

    became a lot of overhead so LinkedIn is

    a really good resource also they're

    welcome to anything that's probably a

    really great start as long as they spell

    my last name right that's the hardest

    part and with that that concludes this

    week's episode of the cska podcast just

    a friendly reminder

    I do link to many of the resources that

    jackie mentioned in this episode

    including Jackie's LinkedIn profile as

    well as hundreds of debugging exercises

    that I've created that you can use in

    your classroom for free all of the

    various courses and ciphers and

    resources that jackie mentioned

    throughout the podcast if you enjoyed

    this episode please consider sharing

    with a friend who might be interested in

    reaching these resources and hearing

    from jackie or consider providing a

    review on whatever platform you listen

    to this on stay tuned next week for

    another unpacking scholarship episode

    where i will talk about some potential

    implications of the latest research in

    CS education what it means for your

    classroom and then two weeks from now it

    will be another interview thanks so much

    for listening I hope you're all staying

    healthy and are having a wonderful week

Guest Bio

Jacqueline Corricelli has been a public school educator since Fall 2003. She works at Conard High School, West Hartford, CT where she teaches mathematics, AP Computer Science Principles, and AP Computer Science A. Prior to this, she taught at East Windsor High School. This is a second career for Jackie who, after earning her degree in Mathematics and Statistics, worked for three years for Raytheon as a Radar Systems Engineer. Jackie believes that high school students at all levels can, and should learn computer science. Jackie sees computer science as a way to help students become better problem solvers. Supported and inspired by her family, students, supervisor, and coworkers, she sought approval, pursued training, and designed curriculum to offer AP Computer Science A, AP Computer Science Principles, and Cryptography & Cybersecurity for the first time in her school system. Jackie’s passion for computer science education goes beyond the classroom. She volunteers as the Vice President of the CT Computer Science Teachers Association and as a member of the Connecticut State Department of Education CS Advisory Group created to improve access to and define computer science education at the state level. Until July 2020, she has worked as a CSTA Equity Fellow and is currently working to bring SCRIPT Training to Connecticut. She is a Table Leader for Grading AP CS Principles and was a Pilot Teacher, Phase II for this course. Jackie has a B.A. in math and statistics from the University of Connecticut and a M.S. in mathematics secondary education from Westfield State University. She is a certified secondary mathematics teacher. She and her family reside in East Granby, CT.


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