See, What Had Happened with Andre Daughty

In this interview with Andre Daughty, we discuss how an educator in Andre’s life sparked a passion that led to a career in education, representation in education, thoughts on what’s holding back the field of education, setting boundaries when communicating with people who are being disrespectful, taking care of yourself to prevent burnout, the Mamba mentality, Andre’s intentionality with improving as a public speaker, the importance of play in learning, growing a podcast audience, and so much more.

• Auto-generated transcript (click to expand)

  Welcome back to another episode of the

  csk8 podcast my name is Jared O'Leary

  each week of this podcast is either an

  interview with a guest or multiple guest

  or a solo episode where I unpack some

  scholarship in relation to Computer

  Science Education in this week's episode

  I'm having a conversation with Andre

  Dowdy we discuss how an educator in

  Andre's life sparked a passion that led

  to a career in education representation

  and education thoughts on what's holding

  back the field of Education setting

  boundaries when communicating with

  people who are being disrespectful

  taking care of yourself to prevent

  burnout the Mamba mentality Andre's

  intentionality with improving as a

  public speaker the importance of play in

  learning growing a podcast audience and

  so much more as always you can find

  links to some of the things that we

  mentioned in the show notes which is

  available at jaredeliry.com click on the

  podcast tab or by clicking the link in

  the description on the app that you're

  listening to this on while you're on my

  website you also find a bunch of gaming

  and drumming content and a ton more

  Computer Science Education content

  including link to boot up PD which is

  the non-profit that I work for and that

  powers this podcast if you haven't

  checked it out yet make sure you visit

  pd.org to see the free curriculum that I

  created and learn more about the paid

  professional development but with all

  that being said we will now begin with

  an introduction by Andre hi friends

  Andre Dowdy here from Oklahoma City

  Oklahoma here's the cool thing I never

  thought in a million years I would be a

  teacher that just was not my style that

  just was not my thing I was a kid always

  in class making the Beats you know I was

  the kid who could whistle without moving

  his mouth

  I was the kid always humming and singing

  I could do the work of course you know

  because we can do the work I can do the

  work but after the work I was bored I

  was the kid not wanting to go to those

  centers and those reading centers and

  listening centers over and over again so

  how we make beats and I would be that

  distraction and get kicked out of class

  it was one day that I found the love for

  music and being inside a van it switched

  and changed my whole life little did I

  know at that time I could play eight

  instruments without any musical Theory

  without learning music I could just hear

  it because my mom is a musician and I

  could pick up on the sights and the

  sounds that I heard over time and that

  started my journey I was gonna be the

  next Stevie Wonder went to an HBCU

  called Langston University the only one

  in Oklahoma that's where the Gap Band

  has come from Charlie Wilson it's come

  from there as well and I was going to be

  the next Prince literally I could play

  the music I can make a CD but you can't

  in Oklahoma that's just not gonna happen

  there was not an Avenue for jazz so I

  wanted to be a teacher I wanted to

  inspire other students at the elementary

  level like that one teacher did for me

  and here's the secret that one teacher

  was my very first black male educator so

  I actually got to see me or a part of me

  the characteristics of me in him and I

  was like that's dope and so now I've

  been in education this is year 22. and I

  get the opportunity to inspire those

  from the elementary level all the way to

  and through the Collegiate post-grad

  level and get to help with Keynotes and

  conferences and and speaking the truth

  to power in education from not just a

  musical standpoint but from an

  elementary standpoint technology

  standpoint Equity standpoint of building

  the culture standpoint organization

  stand for all those things and I'm so

  glad to be here with you today what

  grade level was it when you've had your

  first black male educator 6 great and

  that's you know middle school because

  you're trying to find yourself you know

  you were at the elementary level and you

  were the Big Man on Campus big person on

  campus right then you go to sixth grade

  and middle school you're starting all

  over and the eighth graders are taller

  bigger more mature they're dunking on

  basketball goals you know and here I am

  the sixth grade kind of awkward nerd you

  could say who thought it was cool

  because I was cool at the other spot and

  then he showed me and not just me but he

  showed so many of us like man you can be

  cool in the skin that you're in if you

  like comic books Rock comic books if you

  like musicianship rocket but excel at it

  don't just say I like music but like

  it's words used to say anybody could be

  a drummer anybody I can go and find a

  drummer to play a gig anytime any given

  point because anybody can play on the

  two and the four and the one and three

  with the bass drum he said but the money

  comes being a percussionist so I don't

  want you to be a drummer I want you to

  be a percussionist because being a

  percussionist will get you gigs and at

  that time you know we're kids now we

  just want to be in the marching band and

  our marching band style was very similar

  to like an HBCU really performative

  dancing and whatever the pop song was

  you know adding that including that in

  your routine and that really struck and

  even until today it still sticks with me

  you know drummers are a diamond doesn't

  but percussionists percussionists are

  different and he nailed on the head on

  that because once when we learned how to

  read music and understood the why behind

  like to play a xylophone or marimba to

  to use that and to play piano keyboards

  anybody could be a drummer but can you

  actually play different genres can you

  actually swing it right can you read

  music and play what you don't feel but

  what is on the paper he retired and this

  is how dope this teacher his name is Mr

  Reginald irons this is how Dopey was

  I've got married to my middle school

  school he was at the wedding he had both

  of us in class and he and his wife

  showed up at our wedding and I thought I

  still to this day like that just blows

  my mind that an educator who probably

  had so many other things to do on a

  Saturday in band for him to come to our

  wedding or for him to help me get a

  scholarship so when he retired about two

  Springs ago you know the word got out on

  social media he was this was his last

  year my wife and I made sure to show up

  to his retirement ceremony and took

  pictures with him and hugged them and

  thanked him and he's like I knew it all

  along it was in you you just needed

  someone to help pull it out of me

  and Reginald

  yeah inspiration and being bad so I'm

  curious what about school up until that

  point did not work well for you yeah it

  was never connected and I think that's

  one of the things that we as Educators

  sometimes forget yeah we don't connect

  why we are doing what we are doing or

  why we are learning those objections

  those standards those expectations those

  competencies whatever you want to call

  them the example that I always share is

  in math we talk about what slope is and

  we're trying to find an intercept you

  know slope intercept okay great but you

  just do it for the grade and then you do

  it just to keep moving but we never

  really connect slope to in real life you

  may one time have a backyard and when it

  rains that backyard May flood but if

  your backyard is not graded right with

  the correct slope that water will just

  sit and so sometimes we as Educators we

  don't connect why we are teaching to

  their real life and I think that's what

  he did he was like man those beats that

  you make it who's the intricate and

  here's what they look like now this is

  how you can use this in this Miranda

  this is how you can use this with a drum

  set or this 16th note that you paired

  with a 30 second if you were to use your

  embouchure and the saxophone you could

  do it this way like he connected a world

  that I had only heard of inside of my

  brain and I really am appreciative of

  like the Educators who are now making

  that change again and they're connecting

  what they're teaching to why they're

  teaching right I've often heard like

  especially in math education like people

  complain I learned the quadratic

  equation or quadratic formula but I

  didn't learn how to balance a checkbook

  like I want to actually do something

  that is like useful to me today yeah and

  then the funny thing is like I had one

  student so I Mentor students you know

  here and there especially doing code and

  one of them was like man I'm really

  trying to find like what is the cheapest

  car because I'm about to be in high

  school like I need a car what is the

  cheapest price for the do I get a 2010

  for this price or do I go a 2008 with

  more of the bells and whistles for this

  price he literally like had a Google

  sheet of all the pros and the kind yeah

  and I was like dude this is fantastic

  you doing upper level math you just

  don't know it yeah and he's like nah nah

  I'm like no really really you are trying

  to solve for x based on these variables

  and it didn't connect with him I said

  ask your teacher go take that to you you

  know email your teacher let them know

  and then he showed it to the teacher and

  his teacher was like this is calculus

  he had no idea he's like wait what like

  yeah you are doing upper level math this

  is calculus that you're doing and it

  blue is mine so I'm really hoping that

  we as Educators for those who perhaps

  who aren't doing it I hope that we

  reconnect that why am I teaching you how

  to read and why is it important to be

  able to read the fine print and

  inferences and connecting that to if you

  were to sign a contract or if you are

  about to get a loan or if you want to

  buy a house and they give you all those

  papers for the mortgage you're gonna

  have to infer a lot of that reading yeah

  I'm just making those connections yeah I

  had some really good Educators in my

  life and some really problematic

  experiences in education and both of

  them have informed how I worked with

  kids in the classroom and like whether

  it was learning what to do or what not

  to do so I'm curious for you like how of

  like both your positive and negative

  experiences and education kind of

  informed your own approach to education

  I agree with you 100 you can get some

  learning from any and everything I mean

  I live in Oklahoma City I would be lying

  if I told you that I never had a racist

  teacher I had quite a few and in our

  mind this teaches racist this teacher

  should not be teaching at this school

  full of all these minorities because

  this teacher is flat out right and I

  remember in my head saying that I'm

  gonna be a teacher I'm never going to do

  it like that or even when I made the

  switch from being a music Major to an

  elementary education major that was one

  of the first things that popped up in my

  mind I am not going to do it that way I

  am I I recall I remember how it felt to

  be called the n-word I remember how it

  felt to voice concerns to principles and

  to other teachers and they dismissed and

  so using that same remembrance of how it

  felt then I keep that you know in mind

  for my students how do they feel are

  their voices not heard I want to be that

  safe space that brave space for them

  when they do have those issues those

  concerns and be there for them like some

  of those teachers weren't for me and

  then on the other hand man I really have

  some joke teachers and the way that they

  would teach really help a lot of our

  students some of them weren't as

  traditional a lot of them were you know

  stay quiet 60 Minutes be quiet go work

  here's instructional here's your

  independent turn it in go on you know a

  lot of them are like that but a lot of

  them like show us that Shakespeare

  wasn't the only genius you know that

  there are some of these other books that

  were really dope or there were some of

  these current events and how those

  current events really actually helped us

  become who we are today so yeah I had

  the good and the bad and kind of like

  what you just said you kind of mesh it

  together you fool oh I like how they did

  this here I like how they did it yeah I

  hated how they did that so I'm gonna

  remix it to do it this way and then you

  know it helps practice with your yeah

  one of the things that I've talked about

  quite a bit on this podcast is how in

  computer science education they're

  constantly talking about how there's not

  enough women in the field in CS in

  particular and I agree totally on board

  with that it's underrepresented but

  what's not often talked about is how in

  the elementary space which is where I've

  tended to work in k6 and K-8

  environments it's an abundance of women

  and so the underrepresented people are

  males in particular so like in most of

  the schools that I was at I was the only

  male presenting individual in the

  elementary school and because like 86

  percent of elementary teachers are white

  women so your comments about like not

  having like a male black educator until

  sixth grade like I didn't have one until

  my undergrad like one of the percussion

  professors and he was one of my favorite

  professors like actually when he was in

  hospice like went to see him and say

  goodbye and whatnot like profound impact

  on me and I'm getting choked up thinking

  about them but that lack of

  representation that in that homogenized

  space in the elementary space like it

  can be problematic like how would you

  recommend as a field we could

  potentially address that or change that

  yeah it does matter big time my wife was

  a second grade teacher and when my wife

  first started her career she was the

  only black teacher in that school and it

  was with purpose the principal had her

  own purpose it wasn't like a diversity

  hire but the principal realized we got

  to get more Educators in that building

  that look like the students they serve

  right and so just imagine going up and

  down the hall and all of the teachers

  and all of the parents and all of the

  students seeing my wife and they're like

  she looks like me she has beautiful big

  hair like me or she's got fruit lips

  like me or she looks her skin comes like

  it made a difference but she would get

  every day she would get like pictures

  because once again we're talking second

  grader you know she would get pictures

  splitting under a door of Hi how are you

  doing you know how like they're walking

  and they wave and I mean she was almost

  like a superstar because everybody wants

  to be in a class because she felt looked

  different and then what I loved about

  that school was that she gave them an

  opportunity to learn about herself and

  her culture and how she was raised and

  then they got to learn from her she got

  to learn from them and I really think

  that really matters in my classroom when

  I was in those classes I remember

  parents saying oh he needs a good father

  figure oh he needs a good male influence

  we need to switch that person to his

  class and then next thing I know they

  were trying to put 40 and 50 kids in my

  room because they needed a male figure

  no what with the parents I'm trying to

  say was you look like my son you go

  through some of the same struggles like

  my son and my son can learn from you and

  I think there's some importance to that

  I'm grateful to be one of the people who

  get to have those conversations like

  with Arlene leaders and our

  administrators on that like where are

  you recruiting are you recruiting

  tourism we are out there there are a lot

  of Educators who identify as male are

  you looking for them or are you just

  going to your tried and true colleges to

  recruit there once again I went to an

  HBCU Langston University I remember man

  my freshman year right I'm still doing

  the generals I'm still you know knocking

  out my generals and they had a teacher

  and I'm like okay let me just go and see

  you know they say you get extra credit

  I'm being real they said you get extra

  credit if you go so I put on the Sunday

  Best extra credit I go and there was

  like seven different districts from

  Texas who had showed up at this teacher

  fair and they were like we will pay you

  program and we will give you a twenty

  thousand dollar moving bonus wow to get

  you here and this was

  and they gave me a packet a manila

  folder and I opened it up and it was a

  contract it was here's some apartments

  to live in like they put that thing

  together I was nervous because I was

  like this is seventy thousand dollars I

  remember talking to my mom at weekend

  like Mom look what do you think and she

  was like this is legit they want you bad

  enough and so I remember going back and

  calling because back then you couldn't

  really email email was still kind of you

  know working I remember calling them and

  the the director of I guess recruiting I

  don't know who the person was she said

  we need more blackmail Educators and so

  when we found out that there is 16 and

  cheap we pulled out all the stocks

  because we knew it was a need and so I

  say all that to say I wonder in our

  educational areas and in our districts

  or at our colleges like when we see

  those areas of me are we willing to pull

  out all the stuff I know here locally in

  Oklahoma City the area of need was to

  get Educators who could speak Spanish

  and so one school district here

  literally flew to Spain and grabbed like

  much they offered or paid them but 37 of

  them came back to Oklahoma to teach and

  so I'm truly wondering for those

  Elementary For Those computer science

  like they're out there but are we

  willing to go and recruit them or are we

  just going to let them settle that's

  phenomenal honestly really happy to hear

  that like so the last year that I was in

  the classroom was 2017. before I joined

  the nonprofit that I've been working for

  and I was making just under 45 000 and

  they were counting a doctorate with

  several years of experience so like to

  be making less than what you were making

  in the late 90s like that's phenomenal

  that you were able to do that and I

  didn't even go that was that's the sad

  part of the story man oh I got scared

  and I didn't go to Texas but a lot of

  the homies did and a lot of homies still

  live in Texas and I can only imagine 50

  stacking some money I can only imagine

  because like you said there are so many

  people here in Oklahoma with masters

  with doctor and ah they probably barely

  you know tipping that 50 through 70

  range right one of my parents friends is

  a teacher in Oklahoma and yeah it's the

  pay out there is pretty comparable to

  what it is in Arizona where I live it

  doesn't pay very well like you go to

  another state and easily double what

  you're making in like Oklahoma or in

  Phoenix yeah that's why a lot of our

  Educators here in Oklahoma are moving

  either to an online space or just

  quitting and going towards Texas you can

  get twenty thousand dollars quicker

  faster easier you're still doing the

  hard work you're still doing the

  workload the paperwork all of that but

  now you can actually afford to be a

  teacher in Texas Texas is blowing up for

  that reason yeah yeah six eight school

  districts all over the place now just

  because people are moving that way and

  teachers are going that way yeah and

  they're doing a great job of recruiting

  like even in my undergrad in at Arizona

  State there were people from Texas who

  had come and recruit music educators

  like it was a well-known space to go if

  you wanted to be valued as an educator

  like if Texas was one of those States

  yeah yeah I can't blame them playing the

  long game just like any sports team

  right yeah sports team you want your

  best free agent and so you're not going

  to go to a Kevin Durant with the low

  number or LeBron James with a little

  number if you know that that is a need

  for your department or for your District

  or for your community you're gonna you

  know at least some of that money and

  that's what Texas has been doing yeah I

  can't fault my friends who moved to

  Texas and I ain't seen them you know we

  see them social media you know things

  like that but I can't hate on them at

  all I'm curious what your answer will be

  to this maybe it'll add on to what we're

  just talking about maybe it's something

  different but what do you feel is

  holding back Educators or the field and

  then what's something we can actually do

  about it a lot of the systems and the

  administrators since I had the

  opportunity to like be in those meetings

  and see how the vendors vendor their

  products and their services a lot of

  those services and products really

  aren't teaching it's just follow this

  book read this script do it this way and

  there are so many of us as teachers who

  just say give me the time to teach you

  want me to teach reading to these second

  graders who have never read or to be

  second graders who have never been in a

  school until this year of covert because

  of covet and just let me teach them

  don't tell me how to teach it but just

  let me teach it we can assess the same

  way I'm okay with that but give me the

  agency to teach these students what they

  need to know and some districts some

  bazel series some curriculums they're

  not doing it they're handcuffed our

  teachers which then hurts our students

  that's personally from what I have

  observed and then I've also seen it

  where our systems are set up where they

  say go ahead and try explore discover go

  for it I want you to teach your way go

  for it but then they don't give the

  teachers time enough to implement that

  new way they want results instantly and

  education results hardly ever happen

  instantly I mean there's anomalies but

  kind of like once again going back to

  sports if you have a new coaching team a

  new coach and a new staff for the team

  it's going to take almost two to three

  years to implement that system and then

  you can assess it and sometimes our

  systems want four months and expect you

  know tremendous amounts of change in

  that time so that's personal

  systemically one size does not fit all

  and there are some times that one size

  wants to fit all also systemically there

  are certain people in education who are

  running shows of education but that have

  never been a part of Education yeah and

  I'm seeing that hurt students and

  teachers in schools in education and

  then that's when it gets political

  that's when the Kickbacks happen because

  my friend and my buddy is the CEO of

  this so we want to bring them in with

  this government money and it gets really

  really messy and then it gets political

  from there to everything from what is

  culturally responsive teaching and

  learning CRT versus what is critical

  race Theory CRT and then it gets really

  messy and once again if we had people in

  those positions who were teachers or who

  are Educators then they could

  differentiate some of these acronyms a

  little better

  and even us as teachers like there's a

  lot of acronyms that we need to update

  ourselves oh yeah but that systemically

  that is where I'm seeing is the biggest

  concerns at first I thought it was going

  to be covet you know post covet how do

  we do a brand new world of Education now

  that our teachers and our students know

  that they can learn online and they can

  do it effectively online but nah we've

  kind of thrown that to the side and now

  it's really political of what books

  should be banned and why should they be

  banned and this is a history book and

  one of the ones that I scratched my head

  on and then I in a very peaceful and

  loving way admonished certain people

  they wanted to ban Michelle Obama's book

  called being and I was like

  because why if you read the book she is

  literally there's no

  where's the audiobook I read the book

  nothing is there

  nothing is there it makes me infer that

  there's another reason why you want that

  book banned and that's the conversations

  that I don't mind having with

  individuals or with districts because

  let's get to the root of the problem

  let's not attack the branch or the limbs

  or the leaves let's get to the root

  let's get to the soil and if we need to

  till it and turn it over let's tilt it

  and turn it over if we really need to

  uproot the tree and just put it in some

  different soil let's do that but let's

  get we got to get to the root there's no

  reason that book should be banned in a

  high school that that was ludicrous but

  it was a conversation worth having I

  think I can guess who they voted for

  what kind of party based off of that

  it's amazing how political things have

  gotten and how much of an influence has

  had on classrooms yeah even here locally

  in Norman Oklahoma that's where the

  Oklahoma Sooners play University of

  Oklahoma is

  a teacher knew the Banned Book

  guidelines so the teacher said okay

  here's a QR code you can Google this too

  here's the QR code if you want to read

  some of these books and see why they

  aren't shouldn't really be banned go for

  it and so put the QR code up students

  went to it some officials came after

  this teacher and I think the teacher

  resigned wow and this was within the

  last two weeks wow yeah it's gotten

  really political for no reason in my

  opinion unless you okay what I share

  with my friends because I live in

  Oklahoma and Oklahoma is a very

  conservative country I totally get that

  I've got friends and family who are

  conservatives I got friends and family

  who are liberal and I'm like the bridge

  I don't mind being the bridge because we

  got to have these conversations in order

  to grow this side is living in this

  bubble this side is living in this

  bubble and they cannot meet in the

  middle so I try my best to create those

  conversations or those questions those

  probing questions conversation started

  and a lot of what I have observed is

  that some of my friends in Oklahoma

  their history of our U.S history has

  been a fairy tale of U.S history yep it

  has been Disney fied

  which is a great thing because Disney

  makes you feel good you know by the end

  of the movie everybody is happily ever

  after but from the other side or the

  other side of the track so from a

  different perspective it's never been a

  Disney fired version right and so having

  those conversations that's what I'm

  seeing more of which is really

  interesting because I too would I would

  struggle with that you see what I'm

  saying like imagine if your entire life

  you heard the best instrument in the

  world is the percussion even though both

  of us could say it is but you that's all

  you've heard your entire life there are

  no other instruments they're percussion

  instruments is the best and then one day

  you hear a symphony with no percussion

  or quartet and it just blows your mind

  and then they say well yeah you know

  these stream instruments could be

  considered the best for orchestra music

  if it would mess you it would mess up

  your thinking because for your entire

  life you've only heard it one way but

  now you're being exposed to a different

  weight and it's much easier to stay in

  that cognitive dissonance versus

  accepting it and growing from it and I

  believe that is what is happening here

  at least locally

  um with the conversations that I've had

  yeah I could see that like living in

  Phoenix like it's very similar in terms

  of mostly conservative we've had some

  interesting education laws that are

  racist in terms of like you're not

  allowed to speak Spanish unless you're

  it's a foreign language class I had

  kindergarten classes like 35 kids in it

  none of them spoke English and it would

  be illegal for me to say to sit down or

  hey let's all stand up if I said it in

  Spanish it would be illegal there's also

  laws like I think they changed it

  recently but when I was teaching it was

  something along the lines of you will

  not portray the homosexual lifestyle in

  a positive intent like it was really

  weirdly worded but like lots of weird

  stuff with it I I'm honestly not sure

  what to do about that with all these

  like influences going on in the

  classroom but then myself like

  politically I'm a registered independent

  so I try and hear both sides of the

  aisle and try and understand it but

  navigating those conversations has been

  difficult to like be able to seek to

  understand somebody else's perspective

  that I disagree with I'm curious how you

  have done that or might recommend others

  do that who are in these positions I

  don't mind thinking to understand my

  hard line draw the line in the sand is

  if you're homophobic if you're racist

  period Point Blank misogynistic period

  boy blank yep I'm not seeking to

  understand those terms we can discuss

  policy all you want but as soon as the

  policy infers some racial things some

  homophobic things hard stop just being

  brutally honest with you the last two or

  three days my social media has been on

  Flames because I pointed out the

  comparisons of the Bible Belt in

  Oklahoma Christians as I am one and how

  a certain savior Paid a Debt for

  Humanity similar to how this government

  allowed to pay a debt for a lot of

  people some of my Conservative Christian

  people went off awf they went off on me

  man and a lot of DMS a ton of them Andre

  how dare you how dare you and once again

  I'll listen to understand and I don't

  mind us having that conversation but as

  soon as I feel or I see or I infer that

  you're not talking policy anymore you're

  now moving towards this race is better

  than that race or this gender is better

  than that gender or those people I had a

  lot of those people in the comments and

  I said pause and I always say it really

  respectfully at first we're at a

  stalemate and just like in chess neither

  side is going to hear each other anymore

  we're at a stalemate so I'll just

  quietly bow out and let you believe how

  you believe because chances are our

  conversation is not going to change your

  perspective right your perspective has

  been that way for at least 20 plus years

  I'm not changing that but I did want to

  lift it up to you if they continue to

  try to convince or manipulate or

  continue like most times after I say

  that the majority of them will say well

  great discussion thank you some of them

  will double down on a few words and then

  that's when I lived up to them this is

  what you said we call it pulling

  receipts do y'all call it that in

  Oklahoma I mean in uh Arizona no I

  haven't heard that term yes colon

  receipts is that like you said this long

  time ago but now you're saying that no

  let me go back and grab that receipt

  from what you said

  and give it to you because this is what

  you said and then that's when I normally

  lift up the racism and the homophobia

  and all of that like this is what you're

  saying now this is some work that you

  need to do because you said it you said

  screenshot this is what you said you

  know

  I won't blast you out and everybody in

  the world but this is some work you need

  to work on because this is what you said

  I need you to work on your biases and

  most times they're really appreciative

  some of them didn't even notice it you

  know it just yeah sometimes I mean other

  times they double down and triple down

  and then that's when I warn my friends

  my family of them because there's no

  room in 2022 all Races should be called

  out period Point Blank you know if

  you're homophobic and the person said my

  pronouns this and you still choose to

  use different pronouns you should be

  called out and be held accountable and

  we give them grace and mercy but at the

  same time if you willingly are choose

  thing to do this that and the other you

  should be held accountable we pull

  receipts man I like that phrase yeah I

  wish I could take credit for it but I

  cannot I do believe that's coming from

  our lgbtq plus community in Atlanta they

  have such a rich culture and some of the

  phrases that they create it permeates

  through the black culture and everybody

  ends up Phantom and I don't know it's

  definitely one of them that I heard from

  like the Real Housewives of Atlanta and

  you know some of those episodes like

  that yeah

  yeah how do you take care of yourself

  like with engaging in heavy topics like

  in social media especially if people are

  Anonymous on Twitter they can be

  heavy-handed at times and highly

  inappropriate because they think there's

  going to be little repercussions for it

  but then just in general being an

  educator especially now it's difficult

  so how do you try and prevent that

  burnout I'm still working on that

  I think a lot of educators are still

  working on that one thing that I did do

  in Kobe kind of helped me realize it was

  covet allowed so many people just to

  slow down and stop and breathe and kind

  of reset what things were because at one

  time it for me it was I want to help

  this school help that school help the

  school go to this conference help the

  school keynote over here help this help

  and I was such on the go I was starting

  to miss some of the things that were

  important so it kind of helped me slow

  down just a little and I appreciate it

  now every Friday I try my best to have a

  self-care day and for me that could be

  something as simple as watching YouTube

  videos on all of my watch lists that you

  know oh that looks interesting going

  down the rabbit hole of this that is the

  other on Tick Tock or playing

  PlayStation I don't get to play it very

  often but when I do I have a good time

  and so just trying to find those moments

  to pull away get away from Tech get away

  from work and just re-centering myself

  in whatever way another thing that I do

  every morning I exercise weekends I take

  off weekends are like my weekends but

  Monday through Friday man I'm hitting

  that gym I'm hitting it hard just to

  ground myself like you said it's a lot

  of heavy work and sometimes you find

  that you can't shift perspective you see

  some of your friends some of your family

  who are just racist and it hurts your

  heart because you've known them for x

  amount of years and they've never ever

  said or felt that way and now they say

  and they feel that way and once when you

  confront them they stand firm on that

  feeling and you say to yourself well

  I can no longer be with you I can no

  longer hang around you I I can no longer

  support your thinking in that way and

  that's heavy that's hurtful that that's

  emotionally it puts a drain on you so

  being able to pull away and just to

  reset to rest to relax some of my

  teacher friends the way that they do it

  they go shopping

  I've seen a lot of people on Amazon and

  seeing a lot of Amazon packages in this

  house my wife who does that I've seen

  them also like try new hobbies you know

  pickleball never heard of it it was

  never played in the hood but all of a

  sudden there's a pickleball court maybe

  about 10-15 minutes away and I've heard

  a lot of my teacher friends saying they

  want to try pickleball just once again

  given the opportunity to pull away from

  that how do you deal with it man so many

  of what you just said like I yesterday I

  I did like a drum stream so myself

  practicing like trying to just help

  people here's how I practice here's how

  you might practice but before that I did

  an Elden ring stream so it was like me

  trying to show hey look you can have fun

  playing video games and not like rage

  quit and throw your controller through

  the window kind of a thing like so I do

  a lot of that I also do work out like I

  I have a tie bag downstairs so I do Muay

  Thai I do I built a stall bar with my

  dad so I can like work on gymnastics

  strength training stuff like I try my

  best to be as healthy as I can because

  especially reading and writing and

  engaging in like Equity related work

  like there's a lot of things to unpack

  like I worked on a curriculum for the

  win River Reservation in Wyoming which

  has the northern Arapahoe and Eastern

  Shoshone tribes and when you actually go

  through the history of like what

  happened to them in that reservation

  like it's so disheartening like it's

  it's saddening to see like this is how

  we treated other people like as a

  country as the government like so yeah I

  trying to have many different things

  that I can do to just help center myself

  and focus on things that I can control

  while still engaging in the difficult

  work yeah and one of the best things

  best piece of devices I got from it was

  a student student was on Twitter and you

  know how you go through the Twitter

  threads something's viral and you want

  to read the comments because the

  comments is the best part of the you

  know the buyer or whatever and this one

  student was like you and I are both way

  too smart on this subject I'm not going

  to waste my time with me and that was it

  and then the other person perhaps the

  troll kept attacking and the student

  kept replying you and I are way too

  smart for this I'm not gonna waste my

  time with this it hit me because

  oftentimes I'm really you know on social

  media social justice Warrior I'm like

  but here's researcher here's stats you

  know here's a website and here's a video

  here's a tick tock here's somebody would

  think

  the entire time I'm like they just want

  to argue so let me just keep scrolling

  it's not worth the fight locally right

  here in Oklahoma right now a lot of

  Online Social Media stuff has been

  minerals versus Lincoln Riley you know

  was Lincoln Riley wrong why did Lincoln

  Riley leave Oklahoma Lincoln Lincoln and

  you can just see the common threads and

  it's not worth it he chose what he chose

  it was a business decision he got free

  personal jet that's what he wanted to do

  it's no longer worth people commenting

  it's not working the people who are

  baiting and trolling perhaps this is

  what they're doing so for me one of the

  best stress reliefs ever is to not

  comment and just say okay that's what

  they want to believe all right and it's

  like you said it's a fine balance of it

  because there are some times that you do

  need to step in and speak up and say

  before this becomes more misinformation

  and More Lies here's the resource I'd

  like for you to read or here's the thing

  yeah yeah it's hard being somebody who

  like identifies through and through as

  an educator like somebody who wants to

  help people learn things like when it

  comes to problematic Behavior it's hard

  to sometimes be like to not say hey

  here's a resource that can help you when

  the people are just not willing to

  engage in a discussion like if it's more

  of a monologue that I'm trying to have a

  dialogue like at some point it's just

  like okay I provided some resources I

  hope eventually you get to a place where

  you are able to dive deeper into it yeah

  and I'll give them two I'll give them

  two chances we'll dialogue two rounds

  and if the needle's not shifting or if

  you're not even open to the needle

  shifting all right it's been great

  having a conversation with me I look

  forward to more because you're not

  you're just putting more weight and

  pressure on you and some people are

  doing it just to troll other people they

  just want to read and so you're speaking

  your truth and you're speaking your

  voice and you're giving opportunities

  for learning they're just gonna have to

  pick it up on their own time so this is

  a little bit of a shift but what you're

  just talking about with like the

  pressures and whatnot I'm curious what

  led to your interest in becoming a

  public speaker because like it for years

  has been touted locally as like a

  greater fear than the fear of death like

  speaking publicly so what led to that

  interest because that seems like a high

  pressure kind of thing to do yeah as you

  can tell she'll listen in here I don't

  mind talking I was always in trouble for

  it you know in the comments section of

  every report card right they always give

  you the sandwich model you know Andre

  it's such a pleasure to be in class

  Andre talks too much but I raise

  everything is amazing you know I was

  literally that kid yeah and I remember

  my first year of teaching we had to go

  to some PD and I remember sitting and I

  heard the speaker speak his name was Dr

  jawanza and he opened with this quote

  and that quote shifted my entire

  philosophy and education he said If You

  observe student they will teach you how

  to teach them and then he just sat and

  for me it felt like five years that he

  just let us chew on it and process but

  I'm sure it was in five years but the

  more and more I thought about it the

  more more he explained it he's like your

  students will teach you everything you

  need to know you gotta sit and listen

  and I thought I could do it I could do

  I've got experiences and stories and

  strategies I can do that and I knew that

  I could do that I was just never really

  giving much opportunities and it wasn't

  until many many years later that I got a

  few opportunities at conferences and the

  feedback was overwhelmingly positive and

  then one person said have you ever

  considered doing this master and I

  hadn't I knew I could but I just didn't

  know what how do you take those steps

  like how does you know Simon select

  become Simonson like Renee brownie like

  what does that look like you know is it

  someone help them along the way is it

  that they were grinding and then finally

  had the bid come up I did not know and

  then doing workshops nationally and you

  know sharing content online and social

  media and having those discussions it's

  kind of started to work in the favor but

  in my mind I knew I could do that and

  now here's the coolest thing that I

  always tell students the thing that you

  normally get in trouble for is your gift

  that's normally your talent that's

  normally the thing that can help you

  make a lot of money and so the thing

  that I used to get in trouble for was my

  mouth where are my Beats where my

  musical influences and my hums and my

  stats and my talking to my friends and

  my talking and over explaining and being

  thorough oh that ended up becoming my

  talent because now I had a keynote I can

  talk and explain different perspectives

  in different ways I can use musical cues

  and musical ideas and relate that in a

  way where not just my musical teachers

  can understand the students but not just

  students parents but not just parents

  grade levels and so yeah that's kind of

  where the speaker came from and I

  embrace it I'm sure just like everyone

  else I get a little nervous uh when you

  first get on that stage and you look out

  in the car in the crowd and like you

  know they're only going to give you two

  minutes to pay attention to see if

  you're worth something and if I'm

  talking about it or you know on the

  phone checking emails whatever it is

  those fears are always still there as

  well but my message matters and I

  deserve to be on that stage to help

  Educators learn and I'm all for that for

  that nervousness one of the things that

  has helped me with like presenting at

  conferences is I heard somebody on a

  podcast say they like to reframe those

  emotions as excitement it's like energy

  for you rather than like oh butterflies

  and nervousness like the scary thing but

  as oh I'm excited to do this yeah and

  the fear of the unknown I liken it into

  a comedian so what I've been finding out

  in these last four or five years is that

  the way that a comedian approaches is

  her day one hour set is the same way

  most speakers prepare for their

  presentation or their keynote or their

  Ted Talk they start off in the small

  clubs and they work on that material

  same as Educators they smart they start

  off researching the material and

  condensing it into biteable chunks and

  then they share those chunks on Twitter

  or with their GroupMe chat or something

  same with comedians where they go into

  the little small clubs and they got the

  book they got the notepad and they're

  working out their material in real life

  and then they build that from a five to

  ten minute set then a 10 to 20 minute

  then a 20 to 30 and over the year of

  practicing now they've got a full hour

  that they can present to Netflix HBO

  Showtime wherever it may be it's the

  exact same thing with speakers we get a

  topic of material some subject something

  that we are really good in and then we

  build it over time and then you perfect

  it and now you've got so to say like a

  special a keynote that everyone hasn't

  heard but maybe just small pockets and

  then you develop it all over again if

  you do it all over again and the nerves

  is will they be appreciative to the hard

  work that you did to share that topic

  and that's the excitement once when you

  cut your first joke in that opener and

  you introduce yourself and then the

  audience kind of gives you a smile or

  sometimes they give you a laugh then you

  take that deep breath like okay this is

  let's go yeah I was looking at your

  website like looking at some of the

  keynote options that you have on there

  and I'm curious like one of them that

  stood out was the Mamba mentality what

  is the Mamba mentality and then how does

  that inform your own approach to

  education yeah that came from the death

  of uh Kobe Bryant so I will put the

  disclaimer out right right now I'm from

  Oklahoma City Oklahoma we Thunder up

  here our rival our Nemesis the team that

  would beat us when we had Kevin Durant

  Russell Westbrook and James Harden was

  the Lakers so I was not a Kobe fan at

  all we Thunder up here we would boo Kobe

  now later on I would you know go to

  appreciate his work ethic and what

  changed it for me was the Olympics I

  think they were called a redeemed and

  the story of the documentary LeBron

  Dwyane Wade mellow Jason Kidd you know

  all the great of this redeemed team

  Dwight Howard they all show up to

  practice at eight in the morning for a

  nine o'clock practice and they are fresh

  clothes fresh outfits you know laughing

  and giggling coming in with their power

  drink and their protein bars or whatever

  and they walk in the gym and they see

  Kobe Bryant on the floor in a torrential

  sweat and is like huh Kobe what you

  doing and Kobe's trainer workout coach

  whoever was there with him was like

  Kobe's been here since four and in that

  moment but Brian was like oh this is

  something different

  and so when they asked Kobe about it

  Kobe was like man practice is what we do

  together but my work time is where I get

  better and so the next practice 90 of

  the players were there at four in the

  morning with Coke and they were like if

  he working hard he ain't gonna outwork

  me and that was that Mamba mentality of

  you want to be successful you want your

  dreams to come true because we all have

  them but are you gonna do the bare

  minimum to get to it or are you going to

  add that extra and sacrifice to get to

  it because it is a sacrifice Kobe

  sacrificed sleep to be in the gym at

  four means that he was up at three

  meaning that he was in whatever car or

  transportation to get to that gym for a

  four o'clock practice and then after

  that he then went on to practice with

  the team and then after that he stayed

  behind after the practice is over to

  work on free throws and shooting so if

  we're talking to Mama mentality that

  could take place in any part of our life

  also reminds me

  Herbie Hancock talked about it in a

  Miles Davis documentary where Miles

  talked about rehearsal versus prac and

  he says don't you dare dare dare ever

  come to Miles Davis's rehearsal and then

  start practicing he said no you better

  learn your skills and learn what riffs

  you gonna play at home doing your

  practice because when we come to

  rehearsal we're there to rehearse that

  music and that's it don't you try new

  stuff in rehearsal that you didn't try

  in practice and I thought to myself oh

  that's heavy that is Rich that is

  phenomenal that is the monumentality of

  if we really want to become great in

  whatever we do in whatever part of life

  we're in bare minimum is rehearsal but

  what are you going to do in that

  practice time that alone time are you

  gonna sit on the TV and just watch TV

  you're gonna get up and practice you're

  gonna get up and build a plan are you

  going to research this that and the

  other to start your business students

  who want to be YouTubers great you're

  doing the research of watching YouTube

  but I are you going to get an LLC are

  you going to learn more about the

  YouTube creators conference are you

  gonna go I forgot what it's called with

  like the YouTuber con or yeah the

  podcast like there are all these

  different things that so many people

  want to do yep Mama mentality is I'm

  going to jump I'm gonna take that leap

  I'm going to take that risk I'm going to

  learn about it I'm going to grow from it

  that means I'm gonna get up an hour or

  two earlier I'm gonna get up an hour or

  two earlier to get that because that is

  the dream that I want to do yeah yeah so

  pretty much that's the keynote of it all

  and then of course there's some other

  stories in there to talk about how

  students and teachers have used that

  same idea and that same approach and how

  it's actually helping communities

  because of that approach that really

  resonates with me so there's a book by

  Tim Grover it's called winning and Tim

  Grover is like the was the trainer for

  Michael Jordan and for Kobe and so like

  very well known great at it and so in

  that book he specifically talks about

  the mentality what it actually takes and

  like how difficult it is is like having

  succeeded as a both a percussionist and

  music educator and then now in computer

  science like the amount of time and

  effort that went into refining that

  craft like I can't understate how many

  hours I put outside of the teaching time

  to get better at teaching or get better

  at playing or coding or whatever that's

  one of the reasons why I ask like this

  question is how do you practice or

  iterate on your abilities either as an

  educator as a speaker I'll share a

  secret that only my wife and maybe a few

  others know I'll share with your

  audience here when I listen to the

  keynote like at a conference I'm not

  listening to it as a keynote I literally

  pull out my notepad and I'm clocking it

  their intro was too many their first

  joke of this topic in this was from this

  time to this time they use this

  transition and I'm literally like

  drawing it out and mapping out their

  keynote yeah and then from there I study

  it and once again I got this from

  comedian Kevin Hart in one of his books

  he talked about that how he wanted to be

  a really great comedian so he listened

  to Chris Rock and he listened to some of

  the other greats and he just started

  studying them how did they set up the

  joke how did they add to the joke and

  then there was a punchline and then

  further down the way how did they do the

  call back to the joke to still make it

  effective and so I'm literally doing

  that as the key you know I'm sitting and

  I'm listening to the message but I'm

  really dissecting and analyzing every

  part how is the person standing on the

  stage was he she they just behind the

  podium did they walk across the stage

  did they jump off the stage and talk to

  the camera how many of them talk to the

  balcony versus just the front row I'm

  studying because I really want to be the

  best I can be in that because my

  information won't matter if I'm not

  connecting with so I've got to connect

  with them even to the point I've Got

  Friends and I run by a few jokes with

  them to say okay in the comedy world

  it's called tagging they tag a joke like

  I gave you a joke give me something that

  makes it better I'll share the joke with

  you you tell

  you that's funny my family

  some more the joke says something my

  friends wanted to do yoga after school

  and I was like now I'ma stay here

  yes there's something there my wife and

  my daughter and my kids they just looked

  at me like no no no Andre no and even my

  mom who normally gets a good corny joke

  she was like no I was like there's

  something there to that but it's

  cracking it knowing the first five

  minutes of the presentation is important

  because they want to know who you are I

  call it the theory of the size up

  anytime you meet somebody I have no

  evidence to this there's no dissertation

  to this there's no statistical data to

  represent this this is just what I've

  seen the first two to three minutes when

  somebody meets somebody else they size

  them up who are you what do you do are

  you better than me are you about The

  Flaunt that you're better than me or are

  you gonna come in where we're equal and

  within those two or three minutes they

  are sizing everything up how am I

  looking how am I dressing am I worth the

  time is this person worth my energy all

  of that good stuff so I know within the

  first three to five minutes I've got to

  do something to capture the eye

  and so I'm always studying when it comes

  to Keynotes like that as far as

  workshops very similar what's relevant

  now is equity but a lot of people don't

  want to hear Equity away from inside of

  education so what does Equity look like

  in language arts what is equity it's

  embedded kind of like how I used to be

  with tech integration right where a long

  time ago was all right here's curriculum

  here's Tech you know clickers Smart

  Boards you know but now you just put

  them together we just call it both of

  them but again and it's the same thing

  when it comes to workshops as far as

  that yeah that was the whole guts to get

  there but I think I got there yeah I

  know I like that I mean it's that's how

  like chess Grandmaster has become great

  at chess as they analyze other people

  who are great at chess so like if even

  if you're not able to attend the speech

  you could watch TED talks to figure out

  like which ones resonate well and why

  what is the timing of that because they

  have entire teams that go behind like

  the design of those talks and how it's

  delivered it's really smart yeah same

  with musicians I mean you think about it

  I'm sure you as a musician have said

  what made Phil Collins so epic in that

  drum solo if I can feel it coming in the

  air tonight like would they Rush with me

  I mean we can go down all these

  different percussionists and drummers

  like what made their drums sound better

  than this drum why did they use this

  Piccolo snare versus this time like

  analyzing the sounds and how that made

  the song even better yeah it's the same

  with I've seen so many educators are

  doing yeah what's coming to mind right

  now is uh there's a chick Korea and

  Steve Gad album called friends and like

  Steve Gad is just a phenomenal drummer

  can play some serious notes but in that

  album he doesn't overplay things and

  someone I listen to it like he'll just

  put something simple on that's just like

  that is exactly what needed to be played

  at that moment like with chick Cree just

  like banging away on keys in the

  background it's like if you haven't

  heard that album it's so good highly

  recommend it the ghost notes are

  everything yeah and you say to yourself

  but why

  yeah

  and then I throw my sticks down or I

  just turn off my piano my keyboard

  because I cannot get there I just

  but it's the same approach when it comes

  to education there are so many great

  teachers and teachers just in general

  who are studying other teachers who are

  looking at different strategies

  different ways and they're saying oh I

  like how they did this here pulling this

  greatness here this greatness here how

  does it fit my second grade how does it

  fit my ninth grade algebra 1 class how

  does it fit my account class how does it

  fit my Kinders you know that's what I

  love about education man we're all

  grabbing and taking and using to help

  our students some of the best teachers

  that I had one was an instructor at a

  Muay Thai MMA gym that I went to many

  years ago and he had no background in

  education but he was a phenomenal

  educator in terms of like helping people

  learn how to fight and then another one

  that I had a couple years ago we had our

  windows replaced and the main supervisor

  of like his team the way he taught his

  team members how to do something because

  there's a new guy on the job like it was

  really well done and I was just like I

  at one point I went to him and I was

  like I've been in education a while and

  you're like a better teacher than some

  of the teachers that I've worked with

  like you just did a really great job

  with that so if you find like places to

  look for not necessarily in a formal

  context so you can find Educators

  everywhere and some of the best teachers

  will never know they can teach loops

  around teachers of the years and and

  professors and principles of years and

  and they just do it because this is just

  what they do see we're here try to help

  others to grow and to learn that you had

  mentioned not having research on

  something but that actually gets that

  one of the questions I'd like to ask is

  what do you wish there was actually more

  research on that could inform your own

  practices okay so I've shifted in this

  right okay so background growing up I

  was very flexible whatever works best

  works best and so there were times that

  I didn't let the kids go outside for

  recess for an entire year now of course

  we went outside and did some

  instructional things outside where they

  would run and play but they were behind

  academically and so we can use use that

  extra 20 30 minutes and do some more

  reading approaches and reading

  strategies and learning this and more

  Center time and by the end of the year

  they could read and I mean just we got

  off like the bad school list we were

  second most improved in the state like

  all of the accolades from it but looking

  back on it these were fourth grade

  students who should have been outside

  playing and I hate that I robbed that

  from them because you can learn through

  play yeah and so I wish that that would

  happen more I had an opportunity man to

  do a workshop in Australia and so I'm

  there in Sydney when they had their big

  fires right before the start of Kobe too

  and so I'm there in Sydney and I'm

  presenting you know three-day Workshop

  let's go let's get going they're excited

  I'm excited one of the administrators

  comes up to me and says just to give you

  a quick reminder at 10 o'clock we have

  morning tea and I was like huh and they

  said yeah basically it's reset wait what

  it's like yeah we're gonna stop at 10

  o'clock and we're gonna have some

  muffins and some drinks and some tea and

  we're gonna have like a 20 to 30 minute

  morning tea and I'm like okay no big

  deal I'll adjust as need be and she said

  we're also going to have an afternoon

  tea wait what yeah I said okay so in my

  head you know I'm adjusting the day

  because I'm packed from the time we say

  go you know that our lunch is the only

  stop stopping point yeah and I loved it

  man I loved it yep they took walks I saw

  people doing yoga I saw others grab

  basketball and they were playing

  basketball I saw others just talking I

  mean all these different things for

  morning tea and I was like oh we have

  dropped this ball cause this ball right

  here America can really really use this

  our students get our high school

  students could use this suit our

  teachers

  could use morning tea could use

  afternoon tea I hate that we don't do

  that and I would love for us to try it

  so the one thing I would do is we would

  have more play more reset more morning

  tea for everybody Kinder all the way up

  through college just mandatory 30-minute

  break do whatever you need to do to

  relax what about you what would be the

  one thing you say that you like to

  change or adjust well I'll add on to

  that like that's something that I have

  learned so the last five years I've been

  working from home and so I'd like to do

  what's called the Pomodoro method where

  you like work for 50 minutes then you

  take a 10 minute break and you do that

  like every hour and so on that 10 minute

  break like I'll go play the drums behind

  me or I might go downstairs walk on the

  treadmill and just read a book or I

  might go meditate outside because being

  a pasty white ghastly complexion I need

  to get some sun so I can get some

  vitamin D so I have to intentionally go

  outside and actually exit my house like

  I love that the idea of taking those

  mental breaks has been something that

  has really helped me as an educator like

  when working with drum lines like I have

  a very focused mind in that I can go for

  hours without taking a break and like

  not even realize it and so I would set

  my phone alarm when working with drum

  lines like oh it's time for a five or

  ten minute break or whatever because I'd

  notice like their eyes glaze over like

  after playing the same thing for like 30

  minutes straight they're just like

  mentally done okay let's take a break

  let's just stretch so tell some goofy

  stories whatever I think that is

  extremely valuable like in the classroom

  or even like you're saying with adults

  with the PD that we do at boot up we

  also take the Pomodoro approach and that

  we will schedule in time for those

  breaks because it's hard to go three or

  six hours or however long the PD is and

  like not take those mental breaks and do

  a little reset right yeah and I'm

  grateful for all the Early Childhood

  Elementary folks who do those brain

  breaks and they like we're just gonna

  get up and wiggle for two minutes wiggle

  you know do a dance to talk like at the

  middle school high school level it was a

  shock when I saw a teacher say all right

  we finished this here's your 10 minute

  break do whatever you want to do with it

  pull out your phones look on Tick Tock

  scroll and all the students are like

  wait what we can pull out a phone like

  yeah 10 minutes put the timer up and the

  teacher just gave them 10 minutes and

  they were like and then when it was time

  to go back into whatever their next

  lesson was you could see them paying

  more attention and they really

  appreciated that so yeah I like that

  idea yeah and then if they are like

  pulling out their phones it's like oh

  and now's not the time for that right

  now we're focusing can you wait another

  you want yeah if I just give an answer

  that's different one of the things I've

  talked about on here is in computer

  science education there's this tendency

  to want to integrate because there's

  already so many standards there's so

  many subjects that are being taught in

  the day we don't need to add one more

  and so that the way that computer

  science is being integrated is like

  trying to be as convenient as possible

  but it does like a bit of a disservice

  to the field and like to what students

  are learning because you're just kind of

  skimming on the surface just hoping to

  like check off the standards and so what

  I would like more research on is like an

  actual comparison of like what do not

  only students learn in different

  approaches to integration for computer

  science but also like how do they feel

  afterwards like would they have rather

  had a computer science Standalone class

  or would they have rather have

  integrated it in math or science or

  whatever it makes sense makes a lot of

  sense what's something that you're

  working on that a listener might be able

  to help with to be honest with you I'm

  not working so much right now I've got a

  lot of the courses I was doing a lot of

  the workshops and the trainings and so

  all summer it has been just that one go

  go workshops go Keynotes go go go and so

  I'll finally get a break middle of

  September and then that will be when I

  say okay let me read now let's work to

  something so it's kind of like a

  football you know football's gearing up

  and they've had their training camp and

  then after training camp they play the

  games kind of like that where I've been

  playing the game in my off season or my

  Slow Down Season my off peak Seasons

  come in middle of September and once

  when that comes I can breathe just a

  little and say now what does the

  research say how can I best help schools

  blah blah blah blah yep yeah no that's

  relatable but it's funny how a lot of

  people who aren't in education are like

  yeah but you get Summers off like it's

  easy and it's like in a five-week period

  I was home for three days like that's

  literally me I counted 11 from May to

  this week here I've been home 11 days

  total so if I live in Oklahoma we have a

  regional airport so I'm gonna have to go

  to like one of the hubs to get to

  wherever I'm going yeah and so a lot of

  late nights getting wherever I need to

  go and a lot of late nights coming home

  but this is the work that I love to do

  this is the work that I've been wanting

  to do my entire life yeah once when I

  saw like I said I saw Dr juanza kajuku

  and I was like you do this for a living

  you can inspire people and teach them

  strategy what yeah yeah so I'm grateful

  for the 2 A.M Landing in Boston just to

  wake up at six to prep and get ready for

  the school at seven I'm game for that oh

  yeah

  it'll just hibernate for a little bit

  do you have any questions for myself or

  for the field my question would be for

  you is like how are you growing your

  podcast more my wife and I we've been

  doing a podcast and started from covet

  and we were doing really good like the

  first four or five episodes because we

  were able to post it on social media and

  was getting all of the views and then

  social media change algorithms and now

  it's gone from like drastic numbers like

  we had 500 600 views to like 40. and now

  they want me to pay to boost this

  podcast

  I think that it's so unfair I don't want

  to pay to play that's going to be my

  work September october-ish like do I

  need to reformat it we try to do all the

  recording and the filming the first two

  or three months of the year 24 episodes

  total and then just spread them out you

  know do all the recording do all the

  editing then spread it out throughout

  the year but I was discouraged to be

  honest with you because I thought we

  were training upward and then those

  algorithms hit you know I was like my

  own Mama didn't even know that it was

  posted like wait wait a minute that

  would be my question to you like how are

  you what things strategies have you done

  to kind of help push more there's a

  professor at Stanford named Andrew

  huberman and so he's a neuroscience

  professor and so one of the things that

  he actually does is he'll do interviews

  like this but then he'll do solo

  episodes where it's like a deep dive on

  here is what the literature says about

  sleep or here's what the literature says

  about

  um building muscle things like that and

  so it's just a solo episode where he

  just talks about different perspectives

  and like being a researcher he kind of

  unpacks what does this mean for you as

  an individual how is this helpful at all

  he's got like 1.31 million Subs right

  now

  um looking at him on YouTube so he's

  doing really well but what's interesting

  is that's actually the approach I've

  been doing with this podcast is it

  generally alternates between an episode

  with a guest or multiple guests or an

  episode on my own where I will unpack

  Apollo Freddy's pedagogy the oppressed I

  did like one episode for each of the

  four chapters and talk about hey this

  book was written over 50 years ago but

  what does this mean now with like the

  black lives matter movement that was

  like going on specifically with two

  years ago and talking about what does

  this mean for your classroom how does

  this relate to current times Etc I've

  done other ones like hey Anders Erickson

  he's the sports psychologist who talks

  specifically about deliberate practice

  and the use of that and like sports

  psychologists love to cite K Anders

  Erickson the 10 000 hour rule has been

  like a tribute to him Etc and so I read

  off like here are some of the main

  findings of his work and like what does

  this actually mean for an educator like

  if we want to develop expertise what

  does this look like if you only see a

  kid for a year or what if you're like

  when I was teaching music I would see

  kids for K through six so I'd have seven

  years with him how can I try and teach

  in a way that develops at expertise so

  I'd focus on that that makes it so that

  one I can get both current literature

  and like the classics in education and

  kind of reframe it in a way that is

  useful to people who don't have time to

  actually be able to read that and it

  makes it so I can have that buffer and

  not have to have like a new guest every

  single week which is why when I sent you

  that email I'm like hey we can wait as

  long as you want like it's totally cool

  with me because every week I can always

  record a solo episode and that's to be

  expected so that helps having different

  guests on also help because then they'll

  share it with their circles and then

  that kind of gives me like new people to

  potentially reach out to who might not

  have heard this but what I'll say I've

  had the biggest success with is actually

  short form content so YouTube shorts is

  um was their response to tick tock and

  it was like you have to have like one

  minute in vertical format if you can

  create that kind of content like I've

  been doing a lot of gaming and drumming

  shorts and if I look at my Channel right

  now in the last 48 hours I've had 19

  have been from the shorts and I've

  gained like 300 Subs in in the last

  little bit because of all of these views

  and whatnot so if you can repackage

  excerpts of what you're already doing in

  longer form content and then put that on

  Instagram Tick Tock YouTube shorts

  whatever that can make it so that it

  points back to the actual longer form

  content I was doing short form for the

  summer and like you said but then I just

  quit part of it was because I was like

  man these views I ain't doing it for the

  views but my goodness that's a drastic

  difference so okay but I've never ever

  considered putting the short form on

  YouTube it makes all the sense in the

  world if you go that route you just have

  to have somewhere in the title or the

  description

  um hashtag shorts and then it just has

  to be in vertical format under a minute

  and then it will automatically kick it

  into the shorts feed and so that sends

  it to people who are not your subs it

  sends it just like anywhere depending on

  whatever the topic is and so that's like

  why I'm able to get all those views is

  mainly because like the top three that I

  can see right here three thousand for

  this one three thousand for that one

  were shorts and it's just like I don't

  know 30 second clip okay let's do 100

  typical day so then where might people

  go to connect with you and any

  organizations that you might work with

  absolutely I am one of two Andre daddies

  in this world the other one is from New

  York and he does media too and he's a

  musician which I thought was really cool

  I tweeted him one day it's like dude hey

  if I live in New York lunch only Andre

  daddy

  [Music]

  a-n-d-r-e-d-a-u-g-h-t-y whatever your

  social is I am right there if you love

  YouTube content I also have a YouTube

  channel where I share Out video clips

  and then how you can use those inside

  your classroom I call it the real lesson

  within r-e-e-l lesson within so like

  we'll for example we'll take a clip from

  Moana and we'll say here's three things

  that you can teach and you can learn

  from this small clip and then show that

  clip to you where then you can use it in

  your class with your students another

  thing I do on YouTube is called laugh a

  little because we as teachers we don't

  laugh enough throughout the day and so I

  try to find those exciting moments in

  education and share them out with you

  all as well and then lastly my wife and

  I we also have a podcast it is called

  see what had it happen and we uplift

  stories The Good the Bad and everything

  in between in education and so we just

  finished wrapping season two they'll be

  released throughout the rest of the year

  we'll get for season three so Andre

  dowdy.org and I'm the only but there's

  only two of us Andre doughties all over

  social media and with that that

  concludes this week's episode of the

  cska podcast thank you so much for

  listening I hope you enjoyed this

  conversation with Andre I know I

  certainly did and I hope you consider

  sharing with somebody else who might

  benefit from this conversation or

  leaving a review on whatever app you're

  listening to the song stay tuned next

  week for another episode until then I

  hope you're all staying safe and are

  having a wonderful week

Guest Bio

Over the past nineteen years, Andre Daughty (pronounced Daugh like how) has established himself as a highly-regarded urban educator from Oklahoma City, OK. As an elementary school teacher, he helped to improve test scores at a low-performing school in need of improvement to state recognition. That year, he taught a class of over fifty fourth grade students by himself. He continued to serve in education in capacities of leadership, coaching and as a professor.

Andre has been a public speaker, delivered conference and program keynotes, professional development workshops, parenting seminars and student assemblies. He enjoys sharing strategies to create and build culture within a school and organization, ADaughty-5528bringing awareness on today’s generation, understanding and developing attitudes of at-risk student populations, and motivating excellence in the classroom and school with students of color, particularly young black male students. He takes the complicated and makes it simple to understand as he pulls from his experiences in education to take his audience on an emotional and humorous journey. His engaging, yet practical style has earned him invitations as speaker in various arenas. Andre’s most important goal is to allow the listener to see things from a different perspective. He does this by helping to achieve personal and professional goals in practical ways that produce reflection, then change. His ability to connect with people from every walk of life allows him to deliver hilarious, yet, thought-provoking presentations, workshops and experiences.

Andre Daughty is married to his wife, Danielle, and is the father of their two children, Jaiden and Cambria. He earned his B.S. degree in Elementary Education from Langston University and his M.A. degree in Educational Leadership from the University of Central Oklahoma.

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Resources/Links Relevant to This Episode

• Other podcast episodes that were mentioned or are relevant to this episode

  • A DREAM job with Addison Lilholt

    • In this interview with Addison Lilholt, we discuss Addison’s DREAM job, the importance of students having fun through meaningful learning experiences, lessons learned from remote teaching, the importance of mental breaks when learning/teaching, recommendations for getting started with CS, the intersections of CS and environmental sciences, creating an arcade cabinet to explore engineering and CS, being open about iterating on abilities as an educator, and so much more.

  • Connecting with and Listening to Students with Dominick Sanders

    • In this interview with Dominick Sanders, we discuss the importance of connecting with and listening to students, the impact of being a positive role model for kids, considering equity for individuals and across the entire state of South Carolina, what Dominick learned through their experience with Xposure STEM, Dominick’s plan for improving CS in South Carolina, Dominick’s experience with CSTA’s Equity Fellowship, how Dominick continues to learn and grow as a CS educator, thinking through intersectionality in relation to representation, and so much more.

  • CS for All Teachers with Melissa Rasberry

    • In this interview with Melissa Rasberry, we discuss making educational lemonade out of lemons, using technology to collaborate in virtual learning communities, how people are learning differently through online communities, CS for All Teachers, suggestions for using different social media platforms to connect with other educators, and much more.

  • Computing Educational Activities Involving People Rather Than Things Appeal More to Women (Recruitment Perspective)

    • In this interview with Dominick Sanders, we discuss the importance of connecting with and listening to students, the impact of being a positive role model for kids, considering equity for individuals and across the entire state of South Carolina, what Dominick learned through their experience with Xposure STEM, Dominick’s plan for improving CS in South Carolina, Dominick’s experience with CSTA’s Equity Fellowship, how Dominick continues to learn and grow as a CS educator, thinking through intersectionality in relation to representation, and so much more.

  • How to Get Started with Computer Science Education

    • In this episode I provide a framework for how districts and educators can get started with computer science education for free.

  • Increasing Diversity in K-12 Computer Science: Strategies from the Field

    • In this episode I unpack Goode’s (2008) publication titled “Increasing diversity in K-12 computer science: Strategies from the field," which provides suggestions for educators who are interested in increasing the diversity of their CS classes or programs.

  • INTech Camp for Girls with Khalia Braswell

    • In this interview with Khalia Braswell, we discuss the lack of representation in education, improving equity and inclusion in CS education, what Khalia has learned with INTech Camp for Girls, how Khalia iterates on her own abilities, the importance of self care, our thoughts on the future of CS education, and much more.

  • Lessons Learned From CSTA Chapters Across the United States with Jason Bohrer

    • In this interview with Jason Bohrer, we discuss lessons learned coming into computer science education from another subject area, lessons learned working with CSTA chapters across the country (and during a pandemic), how CSTA has impacted the field and continues to evolve over time, how Jason continued to learn about CS without getting burned out, considering equity and inclusion when recruiting for CS education, CSTA’s new CS Teacher Standards, and much more.

  • Making Meaningful Connections with Jean Ryoo

    • In this interview with Jean Ryoo, we discuss equity as an evolving idea, what an ideal CS class looks like, collaborating and learning through research-practitioner partnerships (RPPs), the importance of examining our own biases, the importance of community, working through burnout/depression/anxiety, helping students through depression and suicidal ideation, the problems with whitewashing in education, and so much more.

  • Pedagogy of the Oppressed

    • Chapter one

      • This episode is the start of a miniseries that unpacks Paulo Freire’s (1970) book “Pedagogy of the Oppressed.” This particular episode unpacks chapter 1, which discusses how oppressors maintain control over the oppressed. Following unpacking scholarship episodes discuss what this looks like in education and how educators can adopt a “pedagogy of the oppressed” to break cycles of oppression.

    • Chapter two

      • This episode is episode two of a miniseries that unpacks Paulo Freire’s (1970) book “Pedagogy of the Oppressed.” This particular episode unpacks chapter 2, which discusses the “banking” approach to education that assumes students are repositories of information, and then proposes a liberatory approach to education that focuses on posing problems that students and teachers collaboratively solve. If you haven’t listened to the discussion on the first chapter, click here.

    • Chapter three

      • This episode is episode three of a miniseries that unpacks Paulo Freire’s (1970) book “Pedagogy of the Oppressed.” This particular episode unpacks chapter 3, which discusses the importance of dialogue when engaging in liberatory practices. This episode builds off the previous unpacking scholarship episodes on chapter one and chapter two, so make sure you listen to those episodes before jumping in here.

    • Chapter four

      • This episode is the final episode of a miniseries that unpacks Paulo Freire’s (1970) book “Pedagogy of the Oppressed.” This particular episode unpacks chapter 4, which synthesizes the concepts introduced in the previous chapters and discusses the difference between anti-dialogical and dialogical practices in education (and at large). This episode builds off the previous unpacking scholarship episodes on chapter one, chapter two, and chapter three so make sure you listen to those episodes before jumping in here.

  • The Role of Deliberate Practice in the Acquisition of Expert Performance

    • In this episode I unpack Ericsson, Krampe, and Tesch-Römer’s (1993) publication titled “The role of deliberate practice in the acquisition of expert performance,” which debunks the notion of innate abilities within a domain and describes the role of deliberate practice in achieving expert performance.

  • More episodes related to equity

  • More episodes related to representation

  • More episodes related to self care

  • More episodes related to social media

  • All other episodes

• Tim Grover’s book, Winning: the Unforgiving Race to Greatness

• Listen to the Chick Corea album, Friends

• Andre Huberman’s podcast that I mentioned

• Connect with Andre

  • Check out Andre’s podcast on YouTube

  • Andre’s website

  • Andre’s Facebook page

  • Andre’s Instagram profile

  • Andre’s LinkedIn profile

  • Andre’s Twitter profile

• Find other CS educators and resources by using the #CSK8 hashtag on Twitter

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Free CS Resources I Have Created

• JavaScript (Khan Academy) resources

• Media arts and technology makerspace resources

• Scratch resources

• Sonic Pi resources

• Swift resources

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