Advice for School Administrators Interested in CSforALL with Clark Merkley

In this interview with Clark Merkley, we discuss what Clark has learned over the years working with administrators across the nation who are interested in implementing CS education in their district.

  • Welcome back to another episode of the

    CSK8 podcast my name is Jared O'Leary

    in this week's episode I interview

    Clarke Merkley in our discussion we chat

    about what Clarke has learned over the

    years working with administrators across

    the nation who are interested in

    implementing CS education in their

    district this episode would be an

    excellent episode to share with

    administrators who are kind of on the

    fence about CS education or are unsure

    where to start and it pairs nicely with

    the interview with Diane Oh Grady

    Cunniff which is episode 15 now I will

    say from a personal note that Clark is

    my boss and he is a wonderful human

    being and I have enjoyed working with

    him for the last couple of years he's

    very humble about his background for

    instance he doesn't mention that he

    knows several foreign languages and used

    to teach foreign language at the

    university level and he truly is

    passionate about helping other people

    through education if you're a CS

    educator who is listening to this I hope

    you consider sharing this episode with

    your administrators or administrators in

    neighboring districts who might have

    some questions about getting started

    with CS for all in their schools for

    example Clark mentions several ways that

    you can obtain funding including

    applying for the Amazon future engineer

    plus boot up initiative which Clark

    talks about about 3/4 of the way through

    and can be found at Blue Duck PD org or

    by visiting the show notes at

    Ghirardelli recom I hope you enjoy this

    episode and we will now begin with Clark

    introducing himself so I'm Clark Merkley

    executive director of boot up

    professional development and I've been

    involved with Buddha really since the

    beginning since it was an idea of REI

    and edie's who's our founder and board

    president it's been exciting to see how

    it's evolved from that idea to what it

    is now become which is a very effective

    method for school districts to get their

    teachers trained and get them confident

    and self efficacious as teachers of

    coding and if you write a book about

    your journey into your current position

    what would the titles of the chapters be

    no I can see the first chapter would

    probably be something like budding young

    scientists because when as I went into

    undergraduate work I thought I would be

    a research scientist or maybe a college

    professor

    I thought about medicine and optometry

    and some other things the second chapter

    would probably start off or being

    entitled budding young healthcare

    attorney

    I met a hospital attorney and I thought

    you know that's a really cool job having

    command over a specialized body of

    knowledge taking something that's very

    complex and making it easy for people to

    understand and helping healthcare

    organization do its work and do good in

    the community and then I transition from

    that into working for national health

    insurance company and I was traveling

    one day with my wife and we were driving

    through the Florida Keys and I said to

    my wife I said I'd like to teach

    and she said well you know you've always

    talked about at the end of your career

    maybe being a university professor or

    something like that and I said now I

    said I want to teach now I don't want to

    wait til the end of my career you know I

    wasn't really thinking about University

    and she said what are you thinking be

    thinking about being in like an

    elementary teacher and I said no because

    the kids they love their teachers they

    think they're perfect and and there's

    not a lot of challenge there and she

    said well be thinking about high school

    and I said no cuz the kids are you know

    pretty much decided whether they're

    gonna go to college or whether they're

    not gonna go to college and she said are

    you out of your mind you want to teach

    junior high and I said yeah I said I

    think there's an opportunity there to

    influence students to become lifelong

    learners and I so I like the challenge

    of being a junior high teacher I had

    some very influential teachers when I

    was about that age that made me take my

    academic studies more seriously and

    introduced me to some topics and some

    areas that I was really interested in

    for the rest of my life so that began a

    process where I left a corporate and

    healthcare job and moved into teaching

    junior high my first year of teaching

    junior high I taught three sections of

    algebra two earth science sections and

    then a physical science section I guess

    that next chapter would be junior high

    teacher and then after I'd done that for

    a few years the district office

    recognized that I had some abilities in

    human resources and employee benefits

    and so I moved into the district office

    and an administrative position in Human

    Resources and got to understand how

    districts operate how decisions get made

    working closely with the board of

    directors or the Board of Education and

    seeing how things get accomplished in a

    fairly large School District this

    district has over 30,000 students after

    that I did a few other things in the

    corporate world and eventually went to

    work for Emerald Data Solutions

    and they produce board docs which is a

    board management software solution used

    by about fifteen hundred school

    districts around the country and so I

    was back in the education space working

    with superintendents and board members

    and executive secretaries to the board

    and really enjoyed that experience and

    then board Doc's started to give back

    initiative which later became boot up

    and so I transitioned from one thing to

    the next and and now in a position where

    we're doing some amazing things in the

    world advancing computer science

    education with elementary students and

    we do that primarily by empowering their

    teachers and that's been very gratifying

    work as we've seen teachers that were

    not only very intimidated by computer

    science and coding but also lacked

    tremendous confidence in their own

    ability to do that even though they were

    very good teachers rate rapport with

    their students and we we know from our

    experience that if you start with a

    great teacher who already has a

    relationship with students we can

    provide them with the professional

    learning they need to be very good very

    confident and self efficacious teachers

    of coding so a lot of the teachers who

    are going into CS education sometimes

    they have expressed how expectations in

    reality have not always aligned in terms

    of advanced expectations and what is

    actually like in the classroom I'm

    curious when you first began working as

    a teacher what was something that you

    believed that you no longer believed

    after having had experience in the

    classroom I went into education with the

    belief that some students are going to

    be hard to reach and some students are

    not going to perform well and so I kind

    of went in with his expectation that you

    know I would have to live with a certain

    level of disappointment and there were a

    couple of the experiences that I had

    early on in my teaching that really made

    a difference for me and the first one

    was teaching a science class and it was

    a required class for eighth graders

    and not all the eighth graders were

    excited to be there and I saw my role as

    a science teacher in particular being

    someone who would

    keep the kids engaged and excited about

    real-life applications of science not

    only in current events that were going

    on in the world but in the in the

    natural phenomena that we're taking

    place around them and so I tried to just

    to weave in a lot of those things into

    the daily classes and including a lot of

    hands-on laboratory activities and other

    things where they could see the

    application of science in their life and

    I had one girl in particular name was

    Sarah and she came in and we somehow got

    talking one day or the first weeks of

    school and she said I hate science I've

    always hated science I didn't you know I

    wish I didn't have to take this class

    and so during during the course of that

    that semester and then you know I met

    with her parents during parent-teacher

    conference and they would say you know

    Sarah's really she really loves your

    class you know she went into it with

    some fear and you know she'd really like

    science but she comes home almost every

    day talking about something you said or

    something you've done or something

    they've learned in class and she's

    really really getting excited about

    science and so to see that one student

    and she's just an example of many others

    who you know you could tell by the looks

    on their faces with you know first few

    days of class they were not really

    excited to be there right see them perk

    up and contribute and do some really fun

    creative things and join in on some of

    the the quirky activities it gave me

    hope for not only you know individual

    students but really for all of my

    students that I could be effective in

    reaching them at a time in their life

    when perhaps education wasn't the main

    event for them they were a lot of work

    going through you know social pressure

    where do I belong who are my friends

    what's gonna be my relationship with my

    parents and I felt if I could keep them

    hanging in there and committing to

    learning things over a lifetime that I

    would be successful as a teacher and so

    a few years later I ran into Sarah's

    mother at a local grocery store and she

    said

    I just have to let you know that Sarah

    is in college now and she has she's

    majoring in nursing and she's even

    thinking about maybe she will apply for

    medical school one day and I thought

    gosh how wonderful to take this this

    girl she was very bright and very you

    know passionate but to have her go from

    hating science to now pursuing a

    full-time career in a pretty intense

    scientific field you know just kind of

    reinforced all those good feelings I had

    about the difference that I could make

    get a classroom here I lived in the same

    community where I taught and I would

    often see my students at the gas station

    or the grocery store the movie theater

    and if I happen to bump into a student

    and it was close to their home they

    would often invite me to come over and

    meet meet their parents and sometimes I

    would see the very humble circumstances

    that my students were living in and it

    just gave me a one a great appreciation

    for the the courage and the persistence

    that these students showed because I now

    had a better understanding of some of

    the of the challenges that they were

    facing at home and to see how well they

    did in school and how you know even

    going to school was a challenge every

    day it really opened my eyes so I think

    of from you know I went into teaching

    very idealistic and very you know I can

    I can do some great things and change

    the world and I didn't I did not leave

    jaded I left with you know reinforcing

    that original thought I mean my reality

    was nowhere near that idealistic make

    sure I had of what a teacher is like and

    what kind of an effect a teacher can

    have but I do know that I was able to

    make a difference in the lives of my

    students and you know hopefully put them

    on a path to lifelong learning so how

    has your experience working with

    districts across the nation kind of

    reaffirmed or changed your own

    understandings of Cs education or just

    even education in general yeah we've had

    a chance to talk with administrators

    from districts all over the country from

    Alaska

    the city of New York two small rural

    communities and one of the things that I

    that I'm encouraged by is what I hear in

    the in the those conversations is a true

    passion for student success they want

    their students to be successful in all

    aspects not just academic but socially

    and especially as they advance and

    they're in their k-12 education to be

    prepared for life and careers and future

    education and that's almost universal or

    you know the very very large school

    districts down to the very small and so

    that's been very encouraging to see I

    think one of the things that has been a

    little bit more challenging is as a

    non-profit focused on coding and

    computer science education we have a

    true passion because we know that the

    teachers who receive our training

    transform dramatically in terms of their

    level of confidence they go from being

    completely fearful and intimidated about

    their ability to do coding

    and then once they realize one that it's

    it's not as difficult as they originally

    thought and second that it really is

    engaging for the students and that they

    can incorporate that right into the the

    things that they're already doing with

    language arts and mathematics and

    science and social studies and other

    topics

    that we just see really wonderful things

    happening with teachers and then

    correspondingly when they are working

    with their own students we see amazing

    things happening with the students which

    is really the the main point is you know

    getting getting students interested in

    computer science and coding and doing

    that by creating that engagement and

    excitement and confidence with the

    teachers so that part has been very

    gratifying I think that one thing that I

    still have hope for and that is that

    district administrators will see how

    important it is to get this literacy

    into the hands of their students

    particularly the elementary level they

    don't all have to go into computer

    science and they don't have to even take

    AP computer science as an elective in

    high school but when they learn to think

    computationally and they learn to think

    algorithmic rhythmically meaning they

    learn to think in in terms of clear

    instructions and patterns and also the

    the creativity and the design thinking

    that comes along with coding will

    benefit them in almost every academic

    subject that you can imagine and so we

    can see that connection and sometimes

    it's it's it's difficult helping

    administrators understand that when they

    have so many things going on in their in

    their district

    Yanis a lot easier at least I think is a

    lot easier now to convince

    administrators now that we have evidence

    and data from external sources kind of

    validating what we've been doing the

    last couple of years whereas at the

    beginning it was like well what we're

    doing is based on research but we don't

    have research on the effects yet yeah

    and now that we you know we've been

    doing our own collection of data and

    analysis and we're able to show that and

    that makes a big difference because

    something like this where it even though

    computer science has been around for

    decades and it's been you know brought

    to a very high level in the in the

    workforce it still has not made its way

    into k-12 education to the extent that

    it needs to be so our experience and the

    data that we've been able to

    I collect and analyze and now finding

    its way into research publications to

    other places does show one that our

    professional development is is critical

    to getting that teacher confidence which

    i think is a it's a good news for a

    school district because if you think

    that I've got to go into a college or

    university setting and try and recruit

    and peer science majors to go into

    teaching I think what we've established

    is no you can take people that really

    want to be elementary education teachers

    give them the the additional knowledge

    and skills and training and support and

    they can be very very good coding in

    computer science teachers at the

    elementary level that's the part that's

    I think difficult for someone who's

    maybe going into computer science as a

    major to think along those lines there

    they're mostly thinking like how is this

    going to help me advance in my career as

    a software engineer or developer whereas

    those that go into the teaching

    professions typically they're there

    because someone has been a great

    influence in their life as a teacher and

    they want to replicate that same feeling

    that they had from a teacher who saw

    potential in them so we we've

    demonstrated that that model works so

    you don't have to worry like I've got to

    go hire computer science experts to

    teach kids you know I can take a really

    good teacher and help them be a really

    good coding and computer science teacher

    and you don't run into the issue of how

    do I convince this person to cut their

    pay in half right exactly I mean and

    most people they you know they they

    wouldn't make that jump so if you had a

    close friend who was a district

    administrator really wanted to get

    started with CS education in their

    district what advice would you give in

    well you know that I have this

    conversation quite often either with

    people that I've worked with in

    administration or people that have

    become friends

    what I typically like to do is say let

    me let me have you come and watch this

    in action

    because it's one thing to tell somebody

    you know if you introduce computer

    science at the elementary level at your

    school you're gonna see a lot of great

    things happening first and foremost what

    you're going to see is a tremendous

    commitment to equity meaning you don't

    have to wait until junior high and make

    this an elective offering and then hope

    that you can recruit the right students

    into the class or get a nice

    representation of your student body if

    you do it at the elementary level where

    all students have access to it you will

    find that some of the students that you

    might not have otherwise thought would

    be good at this or actually very good at

    it and love it and so we've seen success

    with special education students students

    on the autism spectrum we've seen

    students who you might not otherwise

    think really have a gift first for some

    kind of academic pursuit really blossom

    and you know really shine when it comes

    to coding in computer science

    and sometimes it's just the you know the

    way it appeals to them they're very good

    at consuming code and consuming

    technology and if and we can introduce

    them to the creative powers of coding

    and let them you know come up with their

    own creations and their own projects it

    really it really sends a strong message

    to students so that sort of one thing

    that I I can tell them but I say come

    and watch this in action nothing more

    magical than than two things that we see

    and do one is when our facilitators work

    with teachers and we see especially that

    very first session where they come in

    with a lot of preconceived notions about

    how difficult coding is I mean a lot

    some of them are thinking ones and zeros

    binary cutting great I'm thinking really

    complicated syntax you know and then we

    we take them through a process where we

    introduce them to scratch for example

    where the way the introduction is

    typically done is we just have them open

    up scratch and start playing around with

    some of the icons and seeing what they

    can do and their coding but they don't

    have no idea that they're really coding

    until we stop and let them know that hey

    congratulations you just created your

    first algorithm and so I've had a chance

    to be with administrators in those

    settings with new teachers and they they

    say two things that are really critical

    one is

    this is great because it's it's hands-on

    it's not just sit and get professional

    development which you know that's kind

    of what a lot of our teachers think and

    we know that that that kind of

    professional development that kind of

    learning environment is not you know

    conducive to the best learning it's when

    someone can learn in the context of

    actually doing it and and that's what we

    take a lot of a lot of pride in and so

    that experience of seeing new teachers

    be introduced to coding and computer

    science and almost within minutes

    sometimes go from trepidation and fear

    to you know laughter and fun and

    engagement and and then the next thing

    is we do that's really exciting to see

    is when one of our facilitators will do

    what we call model teaching so you can

    you can sit in a classroom and sit in

    professional learning and maybe actually

    have a hands-on experience but then when

    you get to see someone teaching your own

    class of students and you know those

    students very well you know their

    tendencies and their behavior and you

    know what kinds of things that they get

    bored with and what kinds of things they

    like but so then to see someone who

    knows how to facilitate a coding lesson

    do that with your very own group of

    students that's that's the where the

    real magic happens because then it's

    it's it's not a an intellectual exercise

    anymore it's like okay now I can see

    myself in that role buying what I've

    just learned and as we do the

    professional development over time you

    know we'll come back every six to eight

    weeks and and reinforce what they've

    been taught and teach new concepts

    and we see the teachers grow in

    confidence as they learn new skills and

    then watch them apply that in the

    classroom

    that's that's what's really exciting so

    I encouraged my administrator friends is

    to see it in action you know rather than

    just trying to experience it

    intellectually in my former

    superintendent dr. Betsy Hargrove she

    did the same thing so she would

    constantly have administrators from

    other districts just go into I've in my

    classroom or another coding teacher's

    classroom just to see what does this

    look like what is our professional

    development look like and can this be

    done at this grade level because there

    is some hang-up for some people in terms

    of thinking that coding or computer

    science is too difficult for younger

    kids yeah and we and we hear that a lot

    and then I share with them my

    experiences of being in a kindergarten

    classroom and seeing the kids as they

    come into the room you know they just

    almost sprint to the heart to pick up

    their iPads it run over and they stand

    if there are in the middle of a project

    they just open up their iPad and they

    start working on their project where

    they left off they can't even read yet

    but they but they're doing fairly

    sophisticated coding work you know at

    least as an administrator would think of

    it that that is really exciting in it

    and it's not just playing around because

    there's a lot of administrators they

    think well we've got a computer lab but

    the kids just going there and goof

    around and look stuff up and play games

    and do other things when you see a

    student that's actually working on

    something they care about that's when it

    really really gets exciting and we had a

    story from one of our districts we work

    with in Iowa a little third-grade girl

    was working on a project and scratch and

    went to the teacher and said is there

    any way I can do a project to help my

    five-year-old brother learn basic math

    and the teachers like well I don't know

    I yeah I guess you could once you give

    it a try

    so she runs over and she starts you know

    heads down she's working on this thing

    and you know in classic elementary

    coding style she's trying different

    things to see how they work and

    debugging and you know redesigning and

    making it attractive and putting in

    positive reinforcements if you get the

    answers right and a teacher you know was

    kind of moved on with other things

    didn't really think much about it comes

    back a few weeks later and said well how

    did that little project go about

    teaching your brother math and she said

    it's great he's only five years old but

    he knows all of his addition and

    subtraction for all the numbers one

    through ten and the teacher says well

    show me what you've done and so she had

    developed a little project it was kind

    of like a digital flashcard thing with

    some you know animation to support it

    and if he got the answers right it gave

    him a little bell or a whistle or a

    beret or something like that and over

    the course of just a few weeks with his

    sister's application as she developed he

    would have learned basic math

    and so one of the cool things that we

    see with computer science especially

    when the students get to work on

    something that they're interested in

    because the students you know even as

    young you know second third fourth

    graders they already are interested in

    different things like pets and music and

    fashion and sports and their family and

    you know the environment or you know

    keeping their neighborhood safe and

    clean whatever it is when they're

    creating projects they're they're using

    characters that appeal to them so

    whether they're animals or family

    members and so they're able to do do

    projects with people or figures that

    they can relate with it really tightens

    the level of engagement and the cool

    thing is I mean maybe it's not so cool

    for the teacher who has to follow the

    coding lesson but they get so excited

    about it they don't want to leave they

    don't want or drop that off and pick up

    the next subject so the really cool

    thing is when they when they get that

    level of engagement and then if the

    teachers are trained and they can use

    what they've learned to integrate in

    across the curriculum then it really

    becomes cool we've seen some teachers do

    some amazing things with integrating

    coding into language arts and social

    studies and science and math and other

    areas where once the teachers have that

    confidence in their own ability and

    their students know you know rather than

    doing you know a book report like you

    know reading a new book and we're you

    know starting with the title page and

    dissecting the novel and understanding

    the characters and at the same time

    learning spelling and grammar and usage

    well if I give the students a coding

    project option instead of the

    traditional book report I can still

    assess all those same things as a

    teacher you know did they end the plot

    and the characters and and they

    understand the flow of the story and if

    there are certain key vocabulary words

    that I wanted them to use in a book

    report like you know I could still make

    that same requirement in a coding

    project

    they see the students really come to

    life for a couple reasons one is they

    get a choice and students always like to

    have a choice you know can I either do a

    written book report or I can do a coding

    project but if for some reason that

    creative act of creating a little coding

    project really gets the students to

    think in a little bit different level

    and maybe using some other parts of

    their brain they might not typically use

    so that's very exciting now what are

    some of the questions that you wish

    district administrators would ask you

    about getting started with developing or

    implementing CS education in their own

    schools or district well I guess the

    ones I wish they would ask is and and

    sometimes they do how is this going to

    help my teachers kind of behind that

    question that I would like them to ask

    is the question that we typically hear

    is or their statement is our teachers

    have so much on their plate they can and

    they do one more thing right and so why

    would I have them try and and do a

    computer science class - that's an

    opportunity for me to kind of talk about

    especially the elementary level coding

    is a literacy rather than as a separate

    class or a separate subject and for many

    administrators that's kind of a new a

    new revelation to them I think I said

    you know at the same time they're

    acquiring other languages like oral

    skills written skills and you know

    mathematical or do mercy skills it's an

    ideal time to introduce them to some of

    the of the literacy that comes along

    with coding and then you know how can I

    help my teachers that's what we'd really

    like to hear is because then it's it it

    comes from that lens rather than what I

    consider somewhat of an unfounded

    concern that the teachers can't do this

    I'd rather view it as like we can

    empower the teachers rather than try and

    protect them from you know something

    that might might be upsetting to them

    I've been an administrator before I

    understand that you know you don't want

    to overburden people or come up with you

    know the flavor of the day new program

    that we're doing one of the things I you

    know I wish there were more research out

    there right now is about the impact of

    getting introduced to coding early on

    others

    object areas my hypothesis is that if

    you learn to code and when you're you

    know early elementary school that it

    will help you in language arts and it

    will help you in mathematics to perform

    better because you'll see connections

    and you'll see other ways of solving

    problems and you will you know build in

    this that this you know resiliency or

    grit to keep at it a lot of times when

    you do a program and scratch it doesn't

    it doesn't always work the way you want

    it to and it never does you always have

    to try new things I think students would

    perform better but you know that I'm

    still waiting for some really good solid

    academic research to support that yeah

    and if at the very least even if it

    doesn't increase the test scores at

    least to be able to demonstrate well it

    doesn't lower the test scores either so

    they still are performing at the

    expected level even with the addition of

    working on computer science or coding in

    the classroom yeah I guess there's a as

    a for because I kid there is probably

    that concern and you know adding one

    more thing we've had a couple of

    situations that you know I'm just

    understandable but also a little bit

    disappointing where we've been working

    with districts and as soon as they got

    their reading scores back on the

    standardized exam they pull the plug for

    that those classrooms or those schools

    on computer science and that's

    disappointing because you know I'd like

    to think that we've certainly it's not

    hurting the students in any way and you

    know on the other end that it's

    enhancing their ability to perform well

    on those things you know there's so much

    public pressure for you know getting

    reading scores and math scores to be at

    grade level or above some state norm

    that it does unfortunately put a little

    bit more pressure on districts to think

    about introducing computer science and

    coding to their students yeah or even

    any subject area that's outside of

    what's tested so like in the arts a lot

    of those classes also get pulled it's

    basically like well if it's not tested

    and we're gonna eliminate it from our

    school day because it essentially

    doesn't matter those those kinds of

    subjects do I mean one day they enhance

    the joy and the satisfaction of the

    students right if they can we can see a

    more broad-based approach I think it

    adds to the richness of joy of an

    elementary student

    when they can do things other than just

    you know read write and do math you know

    that it enhances their entire experience

    because those of us that have been you

    know involved in in those kinds of

    pursuits either at leisure or

    professionally know that those and real

    you know richness and happiness to our

    lives so it's important to have those at

    the elementary level as well yeah I mean

    honestly that's why I stayed in school

    is because of the the subject areas that

    weren't being tested on I mean they were

    the ones that I enjoyed the most but

    that's just my own anecdotal experience

    yeah I mean as an elementary kid my

    favorite subjects were lunch and recess

    but and I and I often ask other young

    young students their favorite subjects I

    get similar responses but something

    changed in years right the other cool

    thing that we see with coding that you

    know you may not see in other other

    settings is there is a lot of

    collaboration that takes place and I

    just finished reading a book called

    coding as a playground and the the thing

    I liked about the book was you know they

    said a lot of us have an education have

    done playground Duty or you know

    something like that where we had to

    monitor what was taking place on the

    playground and what does that look like

    and what does that sound like and you

    know teachers will say well like a us

    know II you know kids running around

    doing all kinds of things and so if

    coding is a playground where it is a

    little bit noisy a little it is a little

    bit chaotic but you hear laughter you

    hear you see people talking with each

    other you see students pursuing things

    that they really like and enjoy what if

    you could capture that in an in an

    academic setting where they're learning

    something new and applying it and of

    course the the the opposite analogy is

    coding as a playpen where I've set such

    tight restrictions and barriers that the

    students can't get out of typically when

    you think of a playpen you think you

    know somebody's screaming and crying

    because they don't like it by him and

    you know so a teacher has to take a more

    open view because they're the most

    exciting coding classrooms that we go

    into they're a little noisy and

    little chaotic and you know people are

    talking and laughing and they want to

    share what they just did with a friend

    right you know that's part of the this

    this social and joyful part of coding

    that I think for the students really

    enhances their experience with a good

    teacher leader / facilitator they can

    they can do some wonderful things so you

    had mentioned that we know of a district

    to cut back on computer science

    education because of their they wanted

    to focus on test scores and other

    subject areas I'm wondering if you have

    other regrets that some administrators

    have voiced about their approach to

    implementing CS education in their

    districts yeah I guess or a couple of

    others and one is and this and it's kind

    of related to this idea of coding as a

    playground if if you feel like the

    teachers need to have a scripted plan

    laid out this is what lesson you will

    teach at what time and this is how it's

    going to go and here's your lesson plan

    and it's all set out that kind of a and

    I'll call it a boxed curriculum approach

    for lack of a better term it really

    doesn't serve the students well it might

    be easier for the teachers because they

    don't they don't have to do a lot of

    preparation or a lot of thinking or

    manage a little bit of chaos they they

    kind of follow the recipe and you know

    and the students will follow along and

    do what you know what they're told or

    not do what they're told but whatever

    the case may be so I I worry a little

    bit about that that there are some

    districts that in in the desire to bring

    order and structure for teachers squelch

    the creativity and learning

    opportunities for the students just

    because they have things too tightly

    scripted or too too controlled if that's

    the case then typically it's a project

    where there is one end result that the

    students are trying to achieve and there

    might be a couple different paths to get

    there but the students creativity and

    their ability to apply their own

    interest and to do a project where

    they're working on something they care

    about gets lost great hands

    I guess that that's another thing I'm

    concerned about is just over structure

    the coding in computer science which is

    you'll see that another subject areas as

    well I mean you can you can acquire

    curriculum that is really scripted right

    down to the almost to the minute of

    what's going to be done and what's going

    to happen in a class or during a

    particular classroom session and you

    might have some cool audio-visual

    support or activities that go along with

    it but it's a it's a pre-scripted recipe

    driven curriculum the tea I can't admit

    I mean as a teacher I never got excited

    about stuff like that I can't imagine

    that student well I mean I know students

    don't like it because you know they're

    always like well you're just following

    the book you're just you're just you

    know you you're not doing anything cool

    or creative you're not helping me

    understand this so I saw that I guess

    that's something I'd also worry about is

    just trying to make it too scripted for

    teachers rather than giving giving them

    the opportunity let the students explore

    yeah I'm hoping that with the continued

    spread of culturally responsive pedagogy

    or teaching that that kind of gets rid

    of that

    so I previously worked in a district not

    Avondale but a one before that where the

    PE teachers hit play on a what I think

    was a cassette at the time and it would

    just verbally dictate out what all the

    kids were supposed to do at that day on

    that lesson so like there was no choice

    no interests added to it it was

    everything was literally scripted in

    every elementary teacher in the district

    was expected to hit play on the same

    cassette every week and it it was just a

    nightmare the opposite of what do I do

    what a that what a terrible I mean

    terrible student experience but hey you

    can't imagine the teachers really

    thought that was terribly worthwhile

    either right even those from my

    perspective it just completely got rid

    of any expertise that any of those

    educators could have provided in the

    realm of physical education and just

    made them so that they were just going

    around just making sure people were

    stretching the right way or things like

    that like there is no autonomy or

    ability to kind of customize things to

    match the interests of the kids they

    were working

    well yeah that's I mean there's a huge

    push in education right now for

    personalized learning a lot of people

    are still trying to figure out what does

    that actually look like and how do we

    make it happen and what is that what

    implications does that have for teachers

    but at coding is a great example for

    that because if you've got students that

    are working on something that they care

    about by definition that it's not going

    to be the same as the other students in

    the class

    and the other thing that I you know you

    mentioned culturally responsive

    curriculum the cool thing about you know

    when students do something they're

    interested in they can they can do

    something that is a very personal

    interest to them and you know we often

    talk about in in in education you know

    the space if I can't see it I can't be

    it meaning if I don't see somebody who

    looks like me that's doing what I like

    to do or what I want to do maybe I can't

    I can't be that person and you know one

    of the cool things that's and it's

    really I'll call it an unintentional

    benefit of what we're doing and that is

    in the in the professional ranks women

    are underrepresented in in the you know

    IT and technical fields but at the

    elementary level and across the country

    ninety percent of the teachers are women

    and so when girls can see that their

    teacher who you know looks like them and

    you know maybe even racially looks like

    them it can do something that they

    really like or that they find

    interesting all of a sudden they've got

    that role model right and they go yeah

    my teacher can learn this I can learn

    this and my teacher really seems to

    enjoy this and so you know that's

    something I wanted I might want to be

    interested in we all know that we when

    we have a teacher who's teaching a

    subject that they really love and they

    care about it makes the whole experience

    more interesting it it could be

    something you walked into the class and

    you didn't care anything about it you

    know I remember I had an economics class

    undergrad and I wasn't really I was

    sports tracked into the sciences and and

    literature but the teacher was so good

    you know something like oh I really like

    economics because the teacher just had a

    fascinating way of tying in current

    events and real life and you know

    decision-making and game theory and

    other things I'm like that's time this

    is cool

    and we see the same thing happening with

    coding where the students can pick up on

    the excitement or lack of excitement of

    a teacher and typically when the

    teachers are learning something new

    they're they're pretty excited about it

    you know they're they're gaining

    confidence and a skill they didn't

    thought they would have and the students

    pick up on that and that energy carries

    through

    yeah when I've had some friends who are

    district administrators in other

    districts kind of asked for my advice on

    this if they should just start with

    every teacher in their school learning

    how to code and implementing CS

    education actually that might make

    things worse in the long run because if

    we start with teachers who are not

    interested in it and hesitant to begin

    with and you put them in front of kids

    it might just turn kids away from it but

    if you start with a core group of

    volunteers who are already passionate

    about wanting to do that and then you

    can build off of that and grow from

    there yeah and we we see that very often

    with the districts we work with you know

    they may say for example we want to have

    you train our media text because we we

    don't want our classroom teachers to

    take their eye off the ball and when the

    teachers see the students getting ready

    to go to the library for you know their

    coding class how excited they are and

    you know they're talking and just you

    know could barely contain themselves

    then when they come back they're really

    excited and they're still talking about

    the project they were working on the

    classroom teachers start to say what are

    they doing in there because whatever

    they're doing I wish I had that same

    when I'm in a teaching math I wish I had

    that same level of excitement and

    enthusiasm right and then what we see in

    those districts were they've decided not

    to have the teachers and professional

    development very often that's the next

    thing they think about is how do we get

    more classroom teachers and they'll

    typically take the ones that are

    volunteering the ones that say I've

    heard that it's I've heard that it's not

    that hard to learn because I've talked

    to some of my colleagues and I know how

    excited the students are can I can I get

    that training

    good district will you know rapidly

    encourage those early adopters to come

    on board and then eventually I mean

    someday maybe a generation from now

    every elementary teacher will get coding

    in their pre-service work even if

    they've elected to be an elementary

    teacher right and talking about

    pedagogically what do you need to know

    to do this in a classroom setting rather

    than just taking a classes on the

    content area so like a CS 101 course or

    something like that and then not have

    any application of what would this what

    would learning C++ have anything to do

    with working with a kindergartner

    well yeah I probably wouldn't have

    anything right right but yeah if they

    can take it in the context of how to be

    a more effective elementary teacher then

    I think it makes them it would make a

    real difference we're starting to see

    that a little bit around the country

    with some of the pre-service programs

    but I anticipate that that will grow

    over time yep so if you can make wave

    like a magic wand and make a change in

    CS education what change would you make

    I know what I would say so I'll say what

    I'm thinking even though it may not be

    popular is it I would actually like it

    to be a mandatory subject and and I say

    that with some with some hesitation

    because I mean for example in the United

    Kingdom it is and there's a goal that at

    a certain point in the very near future

    that every student will have an

    opportunity to get computer science at

    every grade in every class so I like it

    because that does kind of force the

    issue and and it also would cause people

    to pay attention and and and think about

    it more seriously the other part of me

    is I never like to be told what to do

    and so if somebody mandates something I

    mean I'm I'm probably one of those

    that's you know gonna be resistant just

    out of principle yeah you know forced to

    do something and so I kind of like the

    idea of a soft mandate meaning this is

    who we are you know let's say it's at a

    district level this is who we are we

    think these kinds of skills are

    essential for our students to gain and

    this literacy is essential for them to

    have and so we want to give them every

    opportunity and we also want to

    demonstrate to our building level

    principals and to our teachers and to

    our staff

    that this is part of who we are and what

    we do and then and also we're going to

    provide you with the resources you need

    to be successful

    and typically that starts with good

    professional development professional

    learning opportunities but it could be

    something as simple as we're going to

    you know cover the cost of your

    substitute so you can get that training

    right or we're going to make sure that

    we have enough devices for teachers that

    want to integrate this into the into the

    regular curriculum or it could be

    something as simple as you know we'll

    give you a designation or a certificate

    or a small stipend for completing the

    training because it's important to us

    and we want to we want to show you that

    that kind of support so it doesn't have

    to be a budget breaker for a district at

    all and often what we see is it really

    is a visionary leader or a group of

    leaders at a school district who see

    that and say I want to make sure that

    I'm providing appropriate support to

    those teachers who are learning this and

    then by doing that our students will

    gain a literacy and a set of skills and

    abilities that they might not otherwise

    have so there has been some concerns

    from administrators regarding the

    budgets so what have some of the

    visionaries and thought leaders that

    you've spoken with her work with done to

    kind of find some funding for doing that

    professional development or the

    substitute cost or device cost or

    whatever like how could districts get

    started if they currently don't have the

    funding well in its entry so I'll give

    you a couple of responses to that I was

    talking to a Cs education leader in

    Texas and you know we somebody brought

    up the funding the funding obstacle

    we'll call it and she said you know if

    you just look around at all of the

    marching bands we have in Texas and how

    much money they spend on instruments and

    uniforms and competitions and everything

    else don't tell me there's not money to

    be found in the budget for computer

    science education so one of them one of

    the responses is sort of a priority

    question and I'm all for marching bands

    having been a former marching band

    member myself but you know the point

    being you've got to set priorities as a

    district and then that may be

    reallocating some of your general budget

    money to words can

    science education the second thing that

    we see oh I'll give you one this that's

    obvious than one that's not so obvious

    the obvious one we see is there are many

    states around the country whose

    legislatures are now appropriating funds

    specifically for computer science

    education and sometimes and a more

    open-ended grant in the form of you can

    use this for professional development or

    devices or covering administrative

    expenses if you need to hire someone

    else at the district level or here's

    some money to do some planning since you

    know strategic planning around computer

    science so those are our clear

    opportunities where funds have been

    earmarked specifically for computer

    science education and districts can

    apply for those and thence and then have

    the funding to be able to do it the

    other one that's not not so obvious to

    us but I have seen it happen

    occasionally I'm privy to the internal

    conversations that take place at

    districts where they are getting

    creative about how they're going to find

    funding to be able to do this

    and so I've heard some districts say you

    know we've got some title one money that

    I think would apply to this or we've got

    some title two funds that I think we

    could designate towards this computer

    science education or there was one

    district that said you know we have a

    Mexican arts grant it's broad enough

    that we could if we can integrate coding

    into art there might be a way that we

    could you know earmark some of those

    funds or use some of those funds to

    support a computer science initiative at

    our school and then there's other places

    you know Utah comes to mind because I

    was on a school community council there

    and the legislature has set aside funds

    for each local school community council

    to be able to give teacher or classroom

    grants or sometimes school level grants

    for certain things to happen a school

    that doesn't have the the funding may

    say well there may be there's some

    opportunities there with the school

    community council grant fund to do

    something we've also seen and in fact I

    met with somebody from DonorsChoose last

    week when I was in Washington DC and

    there are a lot of teachers that are

    either acquiring curriculum resources

    sometimes they're acquiring robots and

    other things to help in their individual

    classroom and I talked to I talked to

    them about are there things that you do

    on a broader scale where let's say a

    district wants to do something like

    professional learning or they want to

    increase the number of devices they have

    so the students can go one-to-one it

    could be something beyond what just an

    individual classroom or teacher might

    want

    and there are some of those

    opportunities out there and so I think

    if a if a district really wants to do it

    that there are some opportunities for

    funding and one of the other things that

    you know that we're involved with is we

    just recently entered a relationship

    with Amazon future engineer where

    they're providing the funding to allow

    us to go into districts around the

    country and the priority is for

    districts that have high needs so the

    high free and reduced lunch or high

    poverty or high title one minority areas

    to to bring opportunities for good

    quality professional learning to

    districts that may not otherwise be able

    to afford it

    and so these are in places where they

    may not have a state grant they may not

    have a generous Foundation they may not

    have access to other corporate resources

    and so this is a great way and right now

    between now and the end of March

    districts around the country can apply

    for that that Amazon future engineer

    boot up grant by going to our website

    and so that's you know that's one thing

    that we see is a real opportunity to

    close some of the equity gaps that we

    see around the country and I love that

    we're basically able to continue

    providing the same PDE we've been doing

    but essentially giving it to a district

    as an award yeah now I'll just use one

    one example I about a year and a half

    ago with the administrators of the

    Atlanta Public Schools we were talking

    about this and they you know the

    reception was oh this is great but does

    it cost anything and I said well

    typically districts will pay us for our

    services to come in and do the

    professional development and the the

    administrators meeting was said well

    unless it's unless it's free or

    practically free and it's really good we

    we probably won't be able to do it

    because oliver all of our schools or

    charter schools they all have their own

    governing boards and you know they if we

    do anything from the district office

    level it has to be pretty low cost to

    the schools and it has to be good

    otherwise they can choose not to do it

    for me this is a classic example of

    where the amazon future engineer

    initiative really can come into play

    because now we can offer our services to

    a district like Atlanta it has those

    high needs and and and you know

    significant equity gaps and bring it to

    their students and at a cost that's very

    low so districts are typically under

    this grant they're not paying for boot

    up services at all no they might cover

    the cost of substitutes they might you

    know provide lunches or other things

    during professional development but it's

    a really low point of entry for a

    district to really get some good some

    good support so I know in the last

    couple of weeks in particular you've

    traveled to several conferences and

    you've gone through well over a hundred

    applications for various positions for

    working at boot up I'm curious how do

    you as somebody who is very busy take

    care of yourself first Dave off burnout

    haha well I guess to two things is even

    even if I'm traveling a lot I try and be

    very careful about what I eat and you

    know what I drink very often all you

    know is I'm traveling in different

    places I'll make us a local stop to the

    grocery store hey which is always

    healthier than trying to you know get

    something fast and cheap at a fast food

    place so there's that and then the other

    thing and this is a really small thing I

    have my favorite pillow that I take with

    me cuz it because I'm often sleeping in

    you know Airbnb Xand and hotels and just

    being able to get a good night's sleep

    makes it makes a big difference and as

    far as the burnout goes right now I mean

    it's so exciting somebody really cool

    things are happening

    I mean Computer Science education

    especially at the elementary level you

    know finding the motivation and finding

    the the drive to keep going is not hard

    at all there's I mean there may come a

    time when it's just so overwhelming that

    I just say I wish I could clone myself

    but that is you know we have such great

    team members that boot up and you know

    we're hiring for other other positions

    right now and the applicants that we're

    getting here just you know great people

    who have a past

    for making a difference in the world and

    that you know as a non-profit we can be

    very mission driven and the mission is

    is to get kids coding and and we do that

    by empowering their teachers and that's

    and then when you get to see the fruits

    of that I mean the evidence of that in

    in the teachers that we work with and

    the students that they work with you

    know the the gratification is built

    right in though that that parts that

    part's easy and one thing that'll add

    having had many conversations with Clark

    is also following a lot of the methods

    that were mentioned in the interview

    with Dave briquette II so there's a lot

    of podcasts and books that are

    recommended in the show notes for that

    one like getting things done which I

    know has been a huge impact on both

    Clark and I in terms of trying to make

    it so we can get through the actions

    that we have for the day without getting

    burned out doing too many things at once

    yeah well I think the the beauty of some

    of those tools is it's not only just

    creating a magnificent to-do list but it

    but it's all about doing what gets you

    the best return on your investment of

    energy and time and passion right and

    you know that's always a that's always a

    mix between you know some things just

    have to get done and you know they may

    not be the things that you need the most

    but they just have to happen I mean

    people have to get paid benefits have to

    be administered you know those kinds of

    things have to happen with precision but

    at the same time if I can focus my time

    energies and skills on doing something

    that has high value and high return

    that's really the you know the beauty of

    getting things done and getting things

    done elegantly is you know that's kind

    of the essence of what we do you may

    have already answered this question

    earlier but what do you wish there's

    more research on that could help

    districts with getting started in CS ed

    yeah so I do I did mention the one that

    I think is really essential and that is

    the impact of learning coding at a young

    age on academic performance and other

    subject areas

    to me that that would be that would be

    one that would need to gain a lot of

    attention because then districts don't

    think how can I fit one more thing into

    the day it would be I've got to make

    this happen

    because it's going to yield positive

    results and then the second thing that

    you know this this one's much more

    difficult to quantify but I think it's

    essential because if you think about you

    know if if one of the purposes of

    education is to is to create a vibrant

    citizenry some day that doesn't and that

    doesn't just mean you know good

    productivity in the workplace it means

    being good citizens and good human

    beings oddly you know I'd love to see

    you know research and support for the

    proposition that learning learning this

    literacy at a young age you learning how

    to code and think computationally and

    collaborating and and being creative it

    leads to a richer citizenry you know and

    it may not be monetarily it may be

    intellectually or socially you know I

    if such research could ever be done that

    would be nice to see something like that

    do you have questions for myself or to

    the field yeah I guess so a question for

    the field

    I haven't get involved these

    conversations and it's usually with CTE

    directors or high school teachers or

    administrators are thinking about career

    and college readiness there's a lot of

    talk about how do we recruit students

    into computer science so we already

    talked about the problems of trying to

    recruit teachers into computer science

    and my my response is you know don't

    recruit them grow them but the the power

    of introducing this at the elementary

    level when all students get it during

    the school day

    you create a new opportunity and or

    problem for yourself and that is

    what am I going to have for them in

    middle school junior high in high school

    if they're coming in too into those

    environments with several years of

    coding and computational thinking

    experience I've got to think very

    differently about what offerings that I

    make and I think that would be a really

    good problem to have I guess what and

    you know a lot of the computer science

    teachers the ones who call themselves

    computer science teachers are at the

    secondary level you know the nine

    through twelve typically I'd like to

    have them think more broadly that you

    know these kids kind of literacy and

    these kind of skills are for everyone

    and not just high performing students

    that that elect it and you know junior

    high or high school or you know that

    we're selecting out aid the cream of the

    crop to take computer science I'd really

    like to see this be much more

    egalitarian and much more equitable in

    the way that those opportunities are

    presented and we've we see if you're if

    you're thinking about the pipeline and

    whether that's a pipeline to jobs some

    of which will be very computer

    programming intensive and then others

    may not be at all but you know having

    that literacy and understanding it's

    still going to be important no matter

    what career you go into having them

    think about you know the power of

    introducing it at the elementary level

    is something I think I'd like the

    the field to think about and keep

    working on it much easier to recruit

    some students into your junior high

    elective computer science class if you

    know they've all had coding for several

    years in elementary school then it's

    really like how am I going to find

    enough teachers to staff all of the the

    need that I have or in some some states

    we've seen it's it's no longer an

    elective it's it's actually going to be

    a requirement and you know if that's the

    case if it's a required middle school

    class in computer science then you know

    you've already got the staffing thing to

    be thinking about but then secondly you

    got to think about the the knowledge

    base of the students are coming in with

    right yeah it completely changes things

    when at least in high school when I took

    C++ course it was assumed that we had

    zero prior coding experience or computer

    science experience but if you have kids

    gone through K through six or K through

    eight and coding every single year

    you're gonna have to revamp your high

    school classes to account for that so

    that'll be an interesting dilemma a lot

    of districts are gonna have to work

    through yeah well then and you know when

    you come right down to it it is an

    equity issue right now you have great

    elementary computer science teachers but

    there's maybe one in a district or two

    in a district they're not doing the same

    thing consistently and so if you have a

    student who just happened to be in that

    teachers class in first grade and they

    got introduced to scratch jr. and

    they're doing some really cool things

    and maybe they've had a little bit of

    robotics and then they go to second

    grade and the teacher says oh I want to

    start something with coding well the

    kids that I had the teacher of the year

    before like boy I already did this and

    the other students that didn't have that

    teacher who weren't fortunate enough to

    have that teacher all of a sudden

    they're like we don't we didn't know

    this we've created inequity without

    really trying to just I'm having you

    know one teacher in isolation doing it

    in a district or in a school and what we

    see is it really gets powerful when all

    that all the teachers are on board and

    doing similar things and

    reinforcing each other from grade to

    grade and being more a lot more

    conscious about where you know where the

    students have been and where they're

    where they're going great and the other

    thing that happens when you you know

    with a current model we see in a lot of

    districts is that one teacher who's

    amazing at coding and computer science

    and maybe they've got a little Robotics

    Club or whatever they leave they move on

    to a position in administration or

    district office the program is gone

    right and that's you know that's really

    sad to see that it could be the fabulous

    program that's really a showcase for the

    district but then that one that one

    teacher moves on it's over and we've got

    to create more sustainable structures

    and systems yeah I would have been a

    reviewer for the what is it the teaching

    excellence in computer science Awards or

    whatever it's called the last few years

    and one of the criteria that has been at

    least on the recent reviews is how

    sustainable are your efforts in terms of

    okay this is great that you're having

    this awesome impact and the field of

    computer science through education but

    is it a hundred percent reliable on you

    or are you building up some sort of

    infrastructure so that when you leave it

    can continue after you're gone exactly

    yeah and too often that is so difficult

    I mean some of these really good model

    teachers that we've met they try and get

    their colleagues involved in it you know

    they they can see that it's bringing

    attention to that teacher or that

    classroom or that school and they try

    and get other people involved without

    sort of district vision and district

    support it's really hard to make that

    happen okay so it's it's too often you

    know the rule rather than the exception

    of the program withers once that

    teachers is moved on where it could

    people go to connect with you and the

    organizations you work with or to learn

    more about the Amazon future engineers

    plus boot up initiative okay so if you

    go to the boot up PD org website a

    couple of things there one is right

    there on the first page between now and

    the end of March is information about

    the Amazon future engineer boot up

    initiative where you can just click on

    the apply now start an application no

    cost to apply very simple to apply you

    know we'd love to see a lot of districts

    do that

    second thing you'll see is if you click

    on the curriculum tab and Jared could

    certainly tell you all about this but if

    you click on the curriculum tab you will

    see and free you know incredible

    resources not only for teachers but for

    students so this is really student

    facing curriculum with video support

    coder resources lots of you know

    extension activities and almost every

    lesson has multiple debugging activities

    where students can try and fix the code

    you know something's wrong with the code

    those resources are available for free

    for anyone and you know the great news

    is that more and more people around the

    world are using those resources because

    of their quality and because of their

    comprehensiveness and so we encourage

    people to take a look at those resources

    and you can also get in touch with any

    of us via that website you know with

    questions or comments or feedback we've

    strive to do better every day and we'd

    love to get your input and with that

    that concludes this episode of the CSK

    eight podcast I really hope you enjoyed

    this episode and I hope you consider

    sharing it with other administrators mr.

    friendly reminder that the show notes

    can be found by clicking in the

    description in the app that you're

    listening to this on or by visiting

    jared O'Leary comm and clicking on the

    CSKA podcast page now next week I unpack

    some scholarship I'm going to actually

    be talking about the sea s visions

    framework which has been put out by cs4

    all and then the following week I'm

    actually going to interview two out of

    the three authors of that paper so stay

    tuned for the next couple weeks for some

    awesome unpacking scholarship episode

    and interview thank you all so much for

    taking the time to listen this episode I

    hope you all have a wonderful week and I

    will talk to you later

Guest Bio

Clark Merkley is the Executive Director of BootUp PD, a nonprofit focused on preparing and empowering teachers and implementing elementary coding programs nationwide.

Immediately prior to joining BootUp PD, Clark was Chief Operating Officer & General Counsel of Emerald Data Solutions, which provides the industry-leading eGovernance solution – BoardDocs – that is used by over 1500 school districts across the United States. Clark served as a school board member for the School District of Kettle Moraine in Wisconsin, has served on several nonprofit boards and has also served in human resources for Nebo School District, a large school district in central Utah serving over 31,000 students. Clark has also practiced law and represented several nonprofits, health care organizations, and businesses in their corporate and regulatory matters.

In the middle of his professional career, Clark was a junior high teacher at Springville Junior High School in Springville, Utah where he taught Algebra, Physical Science, Earth Science, and Law & Government. He loved being in the classroom and helping to shape the minds of future lifelong learners. He considers teaching to be the greatest of all professions.

Clark received his J.D. and MBA from the University of Chicago and his undergraduate degree in Zoology from Brigham Young University. He and his wife, Sheryl, are the parents of five and the grandparents of nine.


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