Incorporating Design Thinking Within “Genius Hour” with Laura Discenza

In this interview with Laura Discenza, we discuss advice for getting started with learning how to teach CS, speaking with arts educators about the intersections of the arts and CS, regularly incorporating the “20% free learning/creating time” into the school day through a “genius hour,” avoiding overly scaffolding learning in the classroom, the importance of having fun with CS in elementary school, and much more.

Welcome back to another episode of the
CSK8 podcast my name is jared o'leary
each episode of this podcast discusses
computer science education by either
unpacking a publication in relation to
cs education or by interviewing a guest
or multiple guests to talk about
computer science education in this
week's particular episode i'm engaging
in a conversation with laura desenza in
our discussion we chat about advice for
getting started with learning how to
teach cs we also talk about speaking
with arts educators about the
intersections of the arts and cs both
laura and i have degrees in music
education we do have some background in
that we also discuss a class called the
genius hour which basically allows you
to regularly incorporate the 20 free
learning or creating time that like
organizations like google are known for
like 20 of your time is to work on what
you want in this case i created a whole
class on it we also discuss avoiding
overly scaffolding learning in the
classroom as well as the importance of
having fun with cs in elementary school
and so much more we do mention several
resources in this particular episode
which you can find at the show notes by
going to jared o'leary.com where there
are hundreds if not thousands of free
computer science related resources
including a link to boot up pd.org which
is the nonprofit that i create coding
curriculum for 100 free and i think
there's about 100 projects on there
right now so make sure you check it out
if you haven't but with all that out of
the way let's now begin with an
introduction by laura hello my name is
laura desenza i am going into my sixth
year teaching computer science fifth
year in my current school i'm at davis
academy in new haven connecticut we are
a public magnet school for kindergarten
through eighth grade
and it's been great it's been a lot of
fun so excited for the new school year
can you tell me the story of how you got
into computer science education
absolutely so it's kind of a roundabout
when i was in college i actually wanted
to double major originally in computer
science and education but in the state i
went to school in we weren't allowed to
you had to have a double major in a
liberal arts it couldn't be in one of
the sciences so wound up in music still
loved it but kind of put that computer
science on the back burner for a while
and then with teaching general at fourth
grade wound up in a science position and
they cut the position and tech opened up
and i jumped at it because i've always
loved computers loved teaching it loved
kind of being a part of it and fell in
love and never looked back
so i was very lucky to get a position in
the school i'm in now to kind of start
the program from scratch because i never
had a computer science teacher before so
it's been a lot of fun kind of making
this program what i want it to be has
that changed like can you now double
major in like cs in education or so i
went to school in massachusetts and in
massachusetts it still has to be a
liberal art major why yeah it's kind of
crazy so
unfortunately
that's not a problem there are schools
who are now offering specific programs
that are computer science education so
it's not a separate major but your
double major has to be at least in that
state some in the liberal arts family
that's interesting i have a lot of
questions for whoever came up with that
but that's for a whole separate podcast
so then how did you learn computer
science a lot of trial and error and a
lot of honestly learning with the kids
so
being an elementary level i definitely
had a little more leeway with that
it kind of started off with one year i
got an email about the hour of code
through code.org
saying try us with your kids i was like
you know what this looks like fun i went
to a catholic elementary school and we
had a teacher who was definitely way
ahead of her time and she started doing
html with us with seventh and eighth
grade but we had to make websites about
the ten commandments and the beatitudes
and you know you had to link it to a
website so clearly in my glory i linked
a beatitudes website to the wnba website
because that's what was most important
kind of computer science and tech so
when i saw the code.org i was like oh i
love doing this when i was a kid i bet
these kids will too
and the hour of code took off we had
kids talking to their homeroom teachers
them wanting to get involved more and i
was like you know what let's see if this
is feasible let's see if this is
something i can make happen
and wound up
taking the code.org classes for teachers
and their week-long seminars and kind of
falling in love and learning how to do
it and taking the courses myself to
learn it and grew the program from there
so i too had a lot of like self-taught
or like taking like a udemy course to
learn how to like program apps on like
ios things like that just to try and
supplement because i didn't have this
kind of education in the
music education degrees that i got and
whatnot but i'm curious because
it has changed over the course of since
you've been teaching the last six years
what would you recommend for somebody
who's interested in getting started like
now
to start with it like would you
recommend the same path or are there new
advancements or new organizations that
you point to and say hey start here
i think it really depends on where you
want your courses to take you
so i truly believe for the younger
grades code.org is a great place to
start because it is leveled you can
start with as young as kindergarten but
depending on what your experiences and
what you're comfortable with there are
other sites so i know for our
kindergarten we really liked using
codable because you didn't really have
to know any language it starts you off
with you know what direction does this
character have to go in and kind of
teachers too understand you don't need
the advanced degree necessarily to
introduce these concepts of coding to
kids
it's more than just you know well what
does the bracket mean and why is there
slash here you know get the basic
fundamentals you need things in order
you need things to make sense and flow
in certain directions or loop and then
grow from there the other part is don't
be afraid to learn with your students
don't be afraid it shocked me what some
of our fifth graders were coming up with
in some of the more advanced courses i
mean they would code these games i'd
look at it and like yeah i wrote it out
they said i was learning how to use
python i was like cool
that's amazing
and let them explain to you what they
did and learn from them and ask them
questions because not only are you
learning more how it's pushing them
and it really is great i mean the first
class i had that was coding in fourth
and fifth grade are now eighth graders
and seeing those projects evolve over
time is just amazing so if you were to
travel back in time
and give yourself some advice and like
hey here's some of the things that i
really wish i knew when i got started
but learn later on what would be some of
those recommendations or advice don't
try to do everything at once
we got bombarded we were very lucky that
we were kind of in a grant position so
they're like you know what tech do you
want when you're starting this new
position
and kind of went in a bunch of different
directions so we did you know robots and
coding and bloxels and this and that and
the other thing which is great and right
now i love having them but it was
definitely very overwhelming to start so
you know it's okay if you have four
different grade levels that are kind of
starting at the same spot because when
that younger class gets older now you
can add on those next things
everyone does need a starting block
don't expect a fifth grader to be able
to complete a fifth grade course just
because it says the grade level when
they've never had tech before so it's
okay to start small and let it grow it
will happen just give it time yeah i had
some people who would come into my
classroom and see like oh there's all in
the same class like four different
programming languages going on
on different platforms devices etc and
like they would look at that and go i
can't do that it's like well you didn't
see the progression that led to this
like i started with one language and
then
next semester okay i'm going to add in
one more option etc so like you can grow
so i definitely would second that don't
overwhelm yourself right off the get-go
right and also there's a ton of
resources out there
depending on your state so for
connecticut we haven't really adopted
computer science standards there's some
that are out there but they're more
library media standards than computer
science and our tech class specifically
isn't just computer science it's also
just technology as a whole so you know
we do
engineering projects is kind of part of
it and we have different things so
know that you know if you're not coding
the whole time that's okay you can still
include those computer science concepts
and other things you're doing
so you know they're writing algorithms
for coding a snowball when they had a
snow day that's still coding to them
that is still an activity that is adding
on to those experiences in
getting the information in their brain
about how things work and how things
need to go to make a program run and
it's connecting it with everyday like in
the moment but knowing that both of us
have a shared background in like music
education i'm curious how do you
approach those intersections with the
arts and computer science so
we have two different platforms that i
really like to use especially with the
music one is using the micro bits
in our classroom because you can code
them out to do different sounds the new
ones that were released have speakers
right built into them which is amazing
we unfortunately don't have those in our
building but we can connect speakers so
the kids you know are making songs
together the other thing that we have
it's a newer program or newer company
they're called unruly splats i don't
know if you're familiar with them
but they actually integrate the music
and kind of physical education in with
coding and there are little bricks i can
actually i think i have one i can grab
that the kids can jump on smash on stand
on run around to but you can code them
either using a midi player or just
straight kind of using an octave tonals
and
make songs so the kids you know they're
learning this song in music class well
let's see if we can code it you know how
much time do you need between a note how
long does the note have to be how do you
make it so if you're playing the a on
this one and the b on that one how are
they going to interact with each other
so that's been a lot of fun and it's
great so in our school we have things
called majors and minors for our fifth
grade students and up so what it means
is once they hit fifth grade they pick
what specials they want to focus in on
so if they pick technology as a major
they'll have tech twice a week and if
they pick music as a minor they'll have
music once a week so you're kind of
getting these kids in different tracks
and it's cool how they might all take
the same tech but then use it within
their other specialty
and we have a lot of music tech
crossover so it's fun to see those kids
kind of work together and be like look
at this song it sounds better than when
we played it on the drums
okay
yeah i haven't heard of phrases majors
and minors that's interesting i'm all
for
like having multiple pathways for
students to kind of specialize in things
and if they want to okay you can take a
generalist approach and just kind of
sample here and there but like forcing
everybody to do that it just i
personally didn't like it going through
school like i wish i could have taken
more music classes instead of being
limited to the number that i had in like
high school but that's my own biases i'm
curious from your perspective what do
you think the cs educators and arts
educators can learn from each other it's
a lot of commonality that isn't
discussed
you know
in music you have a set pattern that
you're going to follow and that's how
you get to the end and if you don't
follow it the song isn't going to be the
song
you're writing a program if you don't
follow it and put it in the right order
the program isn't going to run as a
program
and a lot of the
terminology is the same or very similar
if it's just discussed
i'm very lucky again in my building this
isn't the case but i've seen a lot of
schools where
people are very territorial about their
subject areas yeah you know music
teachers are going to stick to music
teachers and tech teachers are going to
stick to tech teachers
and
they're not willing to have that
communication about well how can we make
this one
and when you do that i mean it opens so
many doors you know maybe there's a kid
that's in the tech class that's never
played an instrument before because they
could never afford it or never had the
opportunity
but now you're doing this crossover and
you find out
they're gifted musician they have
natural rhythm they have natural beat
look what they can do and they might not
have ever had that opportunity to
express it before so i think that's
another thing of just opening those
doors for the kids to see the other side
of some of these kind of specialty areas
and express themselves in a way that
they couldn't do just in like a large
ensemble class like there are so many
cool things that you can do that you can
only do with an intersection of like the
arts and code like making things
randomized so like i created like a
randomized drum set so it creates like a
random beat and fill forever and i have
no idea how it's going to sound when i
change it to a different seed to start
it like that is something that i can't
do on drum set by playing that so it's
like this different way of exploring
music and computer science i have a lot
of arts educator friends who are
honestly afraid of losing their job
because they're usually low priority
compared to other subject areas one
because it's not like required they're
not part of the standardized test et
cetera computer science is also not part
of the standardized test however there's
a huge push for it like nationally
because of all the unmet jobs and things
like that so it's at least a higher
priority than some of the arts classes
but how do you
speak with other arts educators and
music educators to help kind of quell
some of those fears of like no we're not
replacing you but to also show like hey
here are some of the beautiful things
that you can do with computer science
that relate to what you are doing in the
arts again i'm in a very unusual
situation with my building in terms of
our magnet school is arts and design
innovation that is our focus
so our entire staff is very aware of the
fact that we are trying to integrate
these two things into every subject and
into every class cool so it gives us
that conversation starter of how to do
it in my previous school though i was
very lucky the art teacher and i were
very good friends and it was cool to
kind of get that crossover and explain
how
you know if we work together look what
these kids can do
and also bringing that back to the
homeroom teachers of you know we're not
just here to give you a prep period
we're here because there's skills that
are needed
for you to use in your classroom as well
yep kind of showing that crossover i
think in some of the conversations that
i had when i was
in teaching coding class when i'd speak
to the music teachers and be like well
how do you explore music through it's
like well you know there's all these
standards outside of performing
like all of the composition standards
history standards you can explore a lot
of those through code but also you can
explore just like
diving into a better understanding of
what is rhythm what are pitches what is
timbre why does that matter and like
thinking of sonic pie which allows you
to code live music or compose music that
you just hit play and then it runs on
itself like there's so many neat things
that you can learn in that or reinforce
that also connect to it so like i had
kids who would come in they'd bring
their band method book into their class
for like trumpet and they just rewrite
their favorite songs in code and that
would help reinforce like their
understanding of pitch and rhythm etc so
for us one of the cool things we did
this summer is
the art teacher that's at my building
and i were both part of another summer
professional development which i highly
suggest to anyone who does maker classes
or anything it's the pathfinder summer
institute but specifically the maker
educator collective bootcamp and it's
kind of how you can get making into
every single aspect of teaching no
matter what you teach how can you make
it a maker class and we got into talking
because we were starting to use turtle
code i don't know if you've seen
in that program but pretty much you can
put out different shapes and there's a
little turtle on the screen that'll draw
out the designs and
how cool it would be for the art
students who were talking about symmetry
and shading and line design so then be
able to code their design and then print
it out on our laser cutter and
yep there's your connection you've got
your tech piece you've got your art
piece you have these kids who are doing
that integrated design and they can
bring it back into their classroom to
make classroom decorations it's all
right there and just her excitement as
well going like
oh i don't have to be my own silo
anymore this really can be a whole
school event and is this typical
throughout the district like do you have
other magnet-like schools or is this
like a special case because your school
sounds awesome yeah so we do have a lot
of different magnet schools in our
district there are i believe it's 42 i
might be slightly off on the number of
schools in our district i believe
there's about 20 that are magnet but
everyone has different themes
so there is another school that is
science and education there's another
one that's multicultural
so it really depends on the building at
what theme they take
ours we're just we're coming to the
close of a specific grant that changed
our focus from being just art to that
art and design
so i kind of again was very lucky and
hit the jackpot in my placement because
it very much aligns with my teaching
methods and what i like to do with my
kids yeah and speaking of one of the
things that why i think your school is
so awesome is we had a previous
conversation talking about genius hour
at your school so i think it was the
birds of a feather when you discussed it
for csta's conference i'm wondering can
you share what is the genius hour
absolutely so the genius hour in our
building
it's kind of based off of google's 20
time so the whole concept is giving
students time during their school day to
do passion projects so it can be
almost anything under the sun in the
older grades and the younger grades we
kind of tailor it a little bit more to
teach them the process and have them
understand kind of how to work through
their own project from
topic idea to questioning to research
all the way through to whatever their
final product is it's definitely been
eye opening the last few years and it's
been really cool seeing what some of the
kids have come up with it's also been
you know a learning curve for teachers
trying to figure out how do you make
this work the most surprising thing was
how some of the students struggled
being given that freedom and not being
told
oh i have to make this thing no you can
make whatever you want you can turn this
into whatever you want
okay but what do you want me to do no no
you can literally do whatever you want
to solve this problem or solve this idea
or learn more about this yep our process
right now we have relied greatly on um
the book launch
i don't know if you've heard of it it's
john spencer is one of the authors for
it so it's called the launch cycle
and it's built off of kind of the design
thinking process it's the same standards
it's just put into an acronym so people
can remember it a little easier and
that's what we've used and it's been
great for them because it gives them
kind of set spots to get to within their
project but it's still self-guided so
you know we might have one person on
step one and someone else on step five
and that's okay but they kind of have
that framework of how to work around to
get to a final product okay i'm really
curious how did this class get added to
your school's offerings was it because
of the grant or like what's the story
behind that it kind of started because
of the grant we wanted to be able to
give students more design process and
design thinking and this was the way
that we decided to integrate it there
was a lot of discussion about you know
well let's just make it more science
classes let's just do more you know
experimentation but it was kind of the
well that's not really design that's you
know telling the kids do these steps do
exactly this you're going to get this
result what did you see which is great
that is very important being able to do
that is very important but we really
wanted to give them student choice and
kind of student accountability over what
they were doing and give them that
freedom to go you know your ideas do
matter your thoughts and your process do
matter but let's put that into something
so you can share it with the world so
how has covid impacted this i'm assuming
your district went to virtual teaching
for at least part if not full-time for a
portion of this last school year so did
the this genius hour did it continue in
some capacity or was it expected or not
expected so we did do it all the way
through it definitely changed a lot and
i can't really say for better for worse
it was just very different and i think
for some students it was a lot more
feasible for them and they didn't get as
overwhelmed for other students they
really missed that hands-on
activity portion so you know in years
past we would get to the create part of
the launch cycle and
my classroom would look like a hot mess
i mean
yeah organized out of organized chaos
there was just everywhere but it was
great there was creation whereas this
year you know we couldn't share supplies
we couldn't do this half the kids were
home half the kids were in school
starting in january we were fully remote
until then it was you can make something
but you got to find the stuff at home
you can bring it in if you want to make
it here and leave it in a corner but
there's nothing i can give you to make
this creation as a result of that though
some of them got creative and we got
talking about you know
making something doesn't mean you
physically have to build it
you might be making a podcast
you might be writing a book you might be
making someone
one of the kids really liked video games
and decided he wanted to make a video
game guide for a game that didn't have
one out yet and he researched how to put
it together and what should be included
and how do you get it published and he
created you know chapter one of the
first level of the game as his product
as his prototype to present to the class
you know cool that's awesome we had
other kids who were physically
engineering something but in a prototype
state out of the stuff that they found
at home so it kind of opened their eyes
a little bit to the creation doesn't
necessarily mean one thing a creation
can be anything that you want it to be
as long as you can present it in some
way that's kind of our only real rule
here yeah that's an excellent point and
i love that example of creating like the
walk through like that sounds like a
project that i would have done in an
instructional design course like
having done similar things where it's
like okay either create or refine this
existing walkthrough of how to do
something like a work order a worked
example or whatever
if somebody's just listening to this and
like it sounds awesome we don't have
anything like this in my school
what advice might you give to them or
another framing of this could be like if
you were to switch schools all of a
sudden you get reassigned somewhere else
and they didn't have it there but you
wanted to get it started what would you
do to get something like this started in
a school i would definitely start with a
single grade level and have it
integrated into a class some way
so
one of the easiest ways that i've seen
it integrated is science just because
they have some more of those hands-on
things for people to kind of see and buy
into but there's a lot you can do within
your ela class which like to do with our
younger students giving them reading
them a book and picking a problem from
the story and having the kids create
some kind of solution to that problem
and start small give the kids kind of
those leading questions and give them
their jumping off point
and then as you go now make it more
open-ended to them being like well we
gave you the problem last time but now
what's a problem you see in your
classroom what's a problem you see in
your house that you can fix whether it's
you know our can opener doesn't work i
don't like feeding the dog
something small and then grow it out to
be kind of on a bigger scale so we're
currently doing that school-wide where
the younger kids are given the issue
the middle age group are given the topic
and the older students are just you know
pick something more than likely our 8th
graders next year they can pick anything
within their major topics the idea is
it's going to kind of be a capstone so
you know you're a music major
something to do with music you're a
drama major something to do with drama
and then from there let their minds let
their minds go
but definitely you know don't be afraid
to start small and give those jumping
off points because it's going to help
them understand the process and then as
they get comfortable with that you can
give them more and more opportunities to
explore it i would have loved something
like that in my school the idea of
starting small letting expand from there
kind of treating it as like a prototype
maybe that can help get more people on
board once they see the success that's
going on and that like that really
resonates with me thinking about a
podcast that recently released that was
talking about like students with
disabilities and how some kids do really
well in these like open freedom create
whatever you want and then other kids
need that like step-by-step instruction
and they they struggle with that kind of
agency or freedom what kind of advice
would you give
or how might you approach those kind of
students who are having difficulty with
that so we have a few in the building i
have some that immediately pop into my
head and
the biggest portion of it is know your
kids and know what they need i have one
particularly he needs a visual aid and
as long as i have something of this is
what you did last time i saw you this is
your goal by the end of today what could
that look like having you know two three
minute conversation
with them about what's gonna happen
today at the end of the day grab it make
sure that it's logged i have another
student who
independently can't work as well so if
they're doing a project if their idea
happens to be similar to someone else's
maybe their c gap moved and they happen
to be at this table now and they can
mimic off
of what another student is doing or how
they're processing it's not going to be
the same project but they can kind of
see the steps the other student is
taking so
it really know your students and know
how they're working it'll make all the
difference and one of the other things i
love again
i'm promoting this i wish
it was a sponsor but the launch cycle
there are so many great resources
there's videos on each different step of
it as well as there's worksheets
available there's a breakdown of how to
break it down to students with different
learning disabilities out there it's an
amazing resource highly highly recommend
yeah and i'll make sure to include links
to it in the show notes
if i were to flip the question so i was
asking like what advice would you give
what about what would be something that
you'd recommend avoiding or not doing
hand holding as teachers sometimes one
of the hardest things is giving up
control
and letting the kids really take
something even if you can see
you know the bottom of the pit and the
explosion already going off and the kids
don't see it let them have that moment
timelines are another thing for teachers
it's one of those like well i have to
have this project done by this time
because grades are coming us yeah it's
part of a control that has to let go so
in our building we decided as a whole it
is not a graded class it's a past fail
in terms of did you show up and try to
do something or
did you sit there and go i don't care at
all that's right because how do you
grade someone on something that they're
passionate about and they're trying to
make it's gonna go differently for every
kid so kind of giving up that control
and going it is what it is and it's
gonna be okay they're gonna learn so
much more by something exploding on them
than they are just being told no you
can't do it that way just do this
instead let the explosions happen
metaphorically and physically
yeah that reminds me a lot of i think it
was in two different podcasts we talked
about it one was with kristen stevens
martinez and another one was with shuchi
grover so we talked about like
assessment and then like grades and i
shared how
my class was basically what you
described like are you in here and are
you working if so cool you keep an a
like if you're in here and you're just
goofing off cool you don't keep your a
like as long as you're actively working
towards something i'm not going to tell
you what that is you get to determine i
can help you but i'm not going to force
it upon you
but because there's no like fixed
deadline of hey you have to finish this
by this week or this particular quarter
like it allowed kids to work on massive
projects that some of them spent
multiple years on and because they
didn't have to worry about like being
able to stop midway through and go okay
i want to change my mind like they
really got to explore
and learn new things about themselves
that they didn't realize they were
interested in absolutely it's funny to
see some of the students too because
they'll come up to you and be like what
do i have to do to get an a well what do
you mean well like what's the rubric
what what do i have to accomplish don't
worry about that
just learn just explore
but i need to know how to get the a
that doesn't exist have you found that
those questions are less frequent the
longer your school has been doing this
absolutely i mean it's a mindset so once
they realize that we aren't here to
penalize them we're not here to keep you
know close oh you didn't do that exactly
right right it's also the cooler the
projects become because they're willing
to take those risks knowing that it's
going to be okay yeah and i asked that
because it was a similar thing like the
first year i started doing this in the
k-8 school that i was in it was a lot of
questions like what do i need to do like
where's the rubric et cetera by year
four like those questions were only
asked by the kids who like transferred
into the district and who weren't used
to this kind of class but everybody else
who had been there been like yeah this
is the class to like explore what you
want and like there's a waiting list to
get into the elective version of it etc
but the people who transfer in they're
just like i'm not sure what's the catch
here like are you gonna fail absolutely
so if we were to think broader than just
this particular class which sounds
awesome
and you were to design like your own
ideal learning environment that could be
anything you want like wave a magic wand
boom you get it what would you design
for like what would it look like how
would it sound et cetera legos
everywhere
no i'm gonna be perfect yes i have
almost my ideal set up now we were very
lucky and kind of got new tables and
stuff so just a lot of space for
students to collaboratively learn and
grow together so whether it's you know
grabbing chromebooks and figuring out
how to code something out or they're
grabbing the you know bloxels cubes to
build a new video game or the splats or
whatever it is and giving them that
freedom to
explore different realms of either
technology or if we're ingenious hour
whatever their topic is in a comfortable
space for them so you know if i have a
kid who just needs to lay across the
floor and have things cool you do that
as long as you're learning as long as
you're communicating and having that
communication i am lucky in the terms of
there isn't really another classroom
around me i've got the gym down the hall
and the library where they don't really
house classes so these kids can get as
loud as they want to and the rule is i
don't care how loud you are as long as
you're on some kind of topic that can
trace back to this you might be talking
about spongebob but it's because you're
trying to animate something in scratch
and you want it to look cool that's fine
that's perfectly fine right but how's
the time back and from there have fun
yeah i wish
i had a professor who one time was like
why isn't whether or not somebody
enjoyed a class like a standard that we
actually strive for shouldn't kids walk
away enjoying education and because it's
not something that we focus on isn't
that pretty telling of what school is
going to end up doing to students
absolutely so speaking of negative
things my apologies listeners
what do you feel is holding back the
field and framing it into a positive
what can we actually do about that i
think one of the negatives is the
consistency i know in rc i mean even in
our district there are three of us who
are computer science teachers in the
entire district specifically most of our
schools don't even have a class so then
the kids get high school and it's well i
don't think i want to take that i've
never done it before why am i going to
jump it now or never even heard what
that is so
we're limiting the number of students
the number of people interested just
because it's not available and it's not
consistently available or you know
they'll transfer into another school
that has computer science but their
entire computer science course is
learning how to type and only typing
which again great skills something you
have to do with the younger students but
they don't have any other background
because that's all that's taught getting
more tech into the buildings in terms of
tech teachers i think is great as well
as different ways of interacting with it
it's not just having a chromebook so
they can write the paper it's having a
chromebook so they can learn how it
works learn how it operates it's growing
it's definitely growing you can see by
the numbers of people online and in
different forms and groups but
especially at the elementary level just
getting that consistency so we know that
every kid has at least experienced it or
been exposed to it i think is our
biggest challenge right now yeah that
really resonates with like the core
mission of the nonprofit that i work for
like we're trying to get cs in all the
elementary schools and make it so that's
mandatory like everybody can do it and i
think that can really help
with some of the sunk costs that can go
into well if i haven't taken this class
for the first like eight or nine years
of my schooling now the risk versus
reward is much like more challenging
because i've done these other things
that i know i like and i there's this
new thing i don't know if i want to give
up something that i know i like for
something that i might like but if you
can just dabble in it even for like a
year like when it's not as high stakes
like i took soccer in elementary school
and basketball and turns out i didn't
want to be a soccer or a basketball
player like it was fun for that year
that i did each of those but i didn't
want to do it forever now had i not
tried it and i got into a high school
and i was in band which i knew i loved i
loved doing drumline but i had this like
opportunity to have to switch to
something else i'd have to give up
something that i knew i enjoyed for all
i know i could have been i don't know a
soccer player like when it comes to cs
it's the same thing like okay if we
don't offer it early enough then kids
won't know and they might just say well
i don't know maybe i'd be interested in
it but i think i'll just stick with this
other thing even though it might end up
being like their passion absolutely i
think you hit the nail on the head there
and we see the numbers right here so i
mentioned the major minors when our
fourth graders are at the end of the
year they have to
kind of rank what do they want their
class to be and we try to keep the
computer science class to around 18 kids
just so we can pull out the robots we
have in this or that and we had almost
of them just going to choir all of them
just going to band because they've
experienced it since they were first and
second graders versus the grades before
they had it for half a year in third
grade and that was it right so i mean
the data's
for us is right there it's exactly that
yeah that's good you're able to actually
look at that and compare it and again
this major minor thing my wheels are
still spinning like i just think that's
really cool adding that with the genius
hours like i wish more schools had that
opportunity to do that for skids for
kids being able to develop
individualized expertise in something
that's interesting to them it's great to
see and it's amazing what they can do
when you do have a class as well that's
excited to be there you know
you can get a lot more done and a lot
more advanced when you've got a group of
kids who are there because they want to
be there and they're excited to be there
versus i'm taking this because i have to
take it because it's the 45 minutes a
day i'm told to sit in this classroom
right the scary thing though is like
from an educator standpoint is at least
from some teachers that i work with is
they're like well what if i don't know
an answer to that and it's like well
because kids are developing individual
as expertise like they can talk to each
other like to get some questions
answered or okay
we don't know the answer to this let's
explore it together we'll learn together
let's figure it out absolutely which
building off of that like you mentioned
how you got started and kind of taught
yourself cs and like
taking some workshops and whatnot but
how do you continue to practice like
also being a musician i know you know
what the grind is like in order to
actually improve on the areas that you
need to improve with your voice or
instrument or anything but how do you do
that with your pedagogy or with your
understanding of cs it's a lot of
honestly continued seminars or
i do rely highly on the code.org work
and continuing on and getting into their
ap courses and taking those individually
on my own or on my own time i'm
currently trying to work in c programs
because right now computer science
teachers do not need to be certified in
computer science in connecticut for the
elementary level and i'm trying to work
on having that because i know it's
coming down the pipeline so finding
programs that are local
that aren't ridiculously expensive to
try to get that certification and get
those classes so kind of that mixture of
the collegiate level and what's out
there for students and teachers
mixing it together and
hoping for the best
speaking of hoping for the best like
hoping for the best for this upcoming
school year but we we talked a little
bit about this like some of the
struggles
but how do you try and prevent that
burnout that can occur just in education
in general but especially over this past
year with everything that went on with
covid definitely making sure i take time
to do my passions as well
so on top of teaching i'm also a high
school basketball and volleyball coach
so having that time that's almost
scheduled from august all the way
through march that's you know i've got
at least two and a half hours a day in
the gym with the high school kids and
playing with them and coaching them and
focusing on that and then i'm a crafter
too so making sure you know i know maybe
i'm doing this project for the kids but
let's have some fun and do it for myself
so speaking of that time away but also
knowing that i am prepared we've been
through worse it's gonna be okay so
let's just see what we've done and what
we can make better or adjust for
whatever situation we're in so if you
know we're in person full time great you
know i can use the 3d printer that's in
my classroom or i can use you know the
doodle pens
you know we're remote now well maybe we
get cardboard and we try to make our own
okay the kids are still learning the
concepts and the ideas i want them to
learn it's just in a different form yeah
i like that it's like making the the
best out of what you have but also
approaching it from like this too shall
pass one of the things that's been
frustrating to
listen to is
i like hearing some people frame this as
like the lost generation it's like
okay
we can all take a break from learning
for a year even if like kids just like
didn't engage at all with school for
this past year they can still be fine
they can still continue to learn things
it's not like they're now never going to
be able to learn again yes it was
unfortunate but there's many cool things
that they can still continue to do and
learn
you know i've seen it on memes i've seen
everywhere the only people that are
writing about being concerned that kids
are a year behind are the ones looking
at test scores
we made those rules up why can't we
change those rules you know
yeah i think to myself this entire
building didn't have a tech program
before i came and what they were doing
was learning google slides that was tech
class
so they're still years ahead then they
would have been if they were in fourth
grade or second grade five years ago
it's okay we're gonna catch up catch up
they're gonna learn what they're gonna
learn they're gonna have fun with it
that's all that matters
yeah and having fun with it part like
even if they take a year off if they
come back continuing to do something
they learn i
would be willing to bet they would be
further ahead than if they never had a
year off and they were learning stuff
they didn't care about because it'd be
irrelevant to them so they wouldn't put
in the effort absolutely that's my own
pedagogical bias and whatnot it's fun to
see with some of the little ones so i
had genius hour for kindergarten last
year and we were making ridiculous
things and there was one particular
student who
school was a rough time for him you know
very energetic kids sitting in one spot
was not meant for him it's one of those
kids
and we were talking about roller
coasters and their project was to try to
make a roller coaster out of whatever
legos they could find in their bin
well it made out this kid apparently
found what he fell in love with and from
then on if they needed him to talk about
a story or something he just had to have
legos in his hand and he would build out
what he was doing he'd be able to
express himself through whatever
creations i'm like you know what he
might not have been able to actually
make the roller coaster but we found
something that he can express himself in
and help him refocus in class that is a
much bigger
important lesson learned in my book than
what i was trying to get at that day
yeah i love that story
shifting gears a little bit
when it comes to like equity and
inclusion in cs education do you have
any advice that you recommend either for
better ncs educators or teachers who are
new to cs so i can't speak to the high
school level which i know
a lot of those situations come on
because it's an elective versus you know
here we're in elementary school it's a
lot more controlled and contained it
plays into that student interest so
showing students that you know computer
science isn't just you know
one little hole that you have to go
through that specific things and you
know you're only doing it's not all star
wars and lego building necessarily it
can take on whatever form you wanted to
and
portraying it to students that way
showing students how computer science
fits into so many different facets of
life because i think that's going to
open a lot more doors to people who
might not consider themselves a computer
scientist or interested in the fields i
know girls who code do a lot of work
with that and a lot of different there's
a bunch of different organizations out
there i definitely can't name them all
who have a lot of great programs to help
promote more of that equity and more of
that inclusion which is wonderful
in terms of the special ed again there
are a lot of great programs you know i
might have a student on different levels
because intellectually they can't handle
what's going on in the general ed class
but they still feel included they're
still on the same site they're just
leveled differently or certain controls
are adjusted and they can still succeed
one of my top students is labeled
autistic and
it is absolutely phenomenal what they
come up with and it's just that's their
niche they found their excitement and
their parent was concerned about them
even being in the computer science class
because they thought it'd be too much
for them to handle so making sure they
have that opportunity to try it and have
that moment because i promise you
they'll surprise you yeah we found that
across a lot of our districts as well or
especially kids in special ed like
parents or teachers there'll just be
some concerns but yeah some kids are
just able to just completely run with it
when you would think otherwise like we
have a video
of the
teacher who took over the classes that i
was previously doing in the k-8 school
so when i was there he was the fourth
grade teacher and when i left he ended
up taking over and he's
said that it was a an eye-opening
experience for him because he was able
to see some of his prior students that
he worked with who had struggled in his
like ela class
just absolutely thrive and excel in cs
and he's like it's the same kid same
teacher just a completely different
subject area and night and day in terms
of difference on how they would be able
to do in it another area that i don't
think gets talked about enough are our
ell students and
the joy on some of their faces because
for some of them especially the younger
ones it's the first time they feel like
they can truly communicate with their
peers because you know
the code language is the code language
our kindergartners you know we use
arrows and stuff a lot because they
aren't readers yet so they can code
through a map they can be the top of the
class and be proud of what they did when
they might struggle in other areas
because they can't read the directions
they don't know what's going on they
can't understand code.org it's in a
bunch of different languages so this is
just a fun story we had a student who
was a refugee from syria and spoke
arabic at home was learning
english as he went along as a fifth
grade student and onco.org you can
change the language so he put into
arabic however it changed the whole
screen over to their alphabet which
reads backwards and on the opposite side
of the screen so he comes up to me goes
i need help and i look i'm like
well i don't even know what you're on
right now what is happening blind like
couldn't figure out how to transfer back
so now we're trying to match up screens
with someone else but it opened
conversation with another student i
couldn't figure out where he was at but
another student knew the screen and
they're talking through and showing and
they're now best friends three years
later and it started in that classroom
together being able to work together in
their own languages both be successful
together and work together to succeed so
yeah from an accessibility standpoint
like having that ability to just toggle
any language just on the fly while it's
running it's definitely helpful and i
say that as somebody who is very much so
struggling learning kanji for japanese i
know some individual kanji but then you
put it in a paragraph and i'm like i
have no idea what this is talking about
that right there says water i think
i'm curious thinking of like research
that can inform
not only just the pedagogical practices
but specifically in like cs education
what do you wish there was more research
on that could assist with that i think
development at the younger ages there's
not a lot out there at all about you
know
developmentally what the kids can
succeed with and what they can
understand and process at the younger
level in terms of computer science i
mean there's the step-by-step there's
stuff that you can pull in terms of
language development to help transfer
over but there's
mostly research done that's done for
middle school and high school levels
there's not a ton out there for the
elementary kids yeah i'd second that i
know there's people who are doing it but
we need more yes what about it what's
something that you're working on that
you might be able to get assistance with
like if there's somebody who's listening
to this you're like i really wish
somebody would help me with blank what
would that be i mentioned this before
like this program didn't really exist
before i got here so i've been building
it from scratch so kind of creating that
vertical planning across the grade
levels i'm still figuring out you know
what stuff should fit where and which
grade level and it's trial and error
like we're starting year six but you
know a year and a half of it was in a
pandemic so that threw everything we did
before out the window to an extent and
it was a different plan so
kind of if people have great road maps
of what they might have done in lower
grades through upper grades or what has
or hasn't worked i'm always looking for
ideas and
articles and research out there about
how people are running their programs
through elementary schools so i will
share this in the show notes san
francisco has a scope and sequence that
i frequently point to and say hey here's
an example of how you might be able to
do this in elementary school oh awesome
so we've actually had several districts
in different states like ask a similar
question like well what does this look
like in terms of vertical alignment how
do you like scaffold in the different
standards et cetera and san francisco
had some really awesome people on a team
work on this
a few years ago
so it's a good starting point at the
very least it's easy to find alignment
with most state standards if you're
fortunate enough to have them because
most of those state standards are at
least based off of csta's work we're
working on it out here we're getting
there
so then where might people go to connect
with you and the organizations that you
work with so i have a
instagram and twitter account a brand
new one for tech i decided after this
past pathfinder is a my you know aim
screen name that i had since fifth grade
was no longer probably appropriate for
professional teaching
so we're slowly transferring over
there's not a lot there yet so at tech
make teach with underscores in between
if you want to find my old one that has
a bunch of projects over the last few
years and some random basketball
pictures it's lmd b-ball rocks because
again 5th grade me was really cool and
again they're both on twitter and
instagram i'm also out on facebook just
with my name so feel free i post a lot
of my tech stuff there and then we've
got a donor's choose page up we were
lucky enough to get a laser cutter in
our building this past year
so much fun but we need a cart to put it
on so the kids don't get you know
crushed by it saying on the floppy table
we've got so
working on getting that for them so we
can roll it into the classroom so these
kids can start making their projects and
with that that concludes this week's
episode of the cska podcast make sure
you check out the show notes at
jaredillery.com so you can visit laura's
donorschoose page as well as check out
the other resources on the website and
in the show notes if you'd be so kind
please consider sharing this episode
with another colleague or friend or
consider leaving a review on the app
that you listen to this on stay tuned
next week for another episode and until
then i hope you're all staying safe and
are having a wonderful week

Resources/Links Relevant to This Episode

Other podcast episodes that were mentioned or are relevant to this episode
- A DREAM job with Addison Lilholt
  - In this interview with Addison Lilholt, we discuss Addison’s DREAM job, the importance of students having fun through meaningful learning experiences, lessons learned from remote teaching, the importance of mental breaks when learning/teaching, recommendations for getting started with CS, the intersections of CS and environmental sciences, creating an arcade cabinet to explore engineering and CS, being open about iterating on abilities as an educator, and so much more.
- Connecting with and Listening to Students with Dominick Sanders
  - In this interview with Dominick Sanders, we discuss the importance of connecting with and listening to students, the impact of being a positive role model for kids, considering equity for individuals and across the entire state of South Carolina, what Dominick learned through their experience with Xposure STEM, Dominick’s plan for improving CS in South Carolina, Dominick’s experience with CSTA’s Equity Fellowship, how Dominick continues to learn and grow as a CS educator, thinking through intersectionality in relation to representation, and so much more.
- CS Educator as Dungeon Master with Jon Stapleton
  - In this interview with Jon Stapleton, we discuss metaphors for education and facilitating, the importance of community and navigating inappropriate content online, how programming languages and platforms influence learning, theories and philosophies that inform Jon’s practice, critical code studies, and much more.
- Discussing Computer Science in K-12 with Shuchi Grover
  - In this interview with Shuchi Grover, we discuss the importance of having a variety of assessments in a CS class, why we need more research on computational thinking, why educators and scholars should read literature outside of the field, Shuchi’s new book titled “Computer Science in K-12: An A-To-Z Handbook on Teaching Programming,” and much more.
- From Mathy McMatherson to Codey McCoderson: An interview with Dan Schneider
  - In this interview with Dan Schneider, we discuss how Dan transitioned from math education to CS education, designing spaces for educational experiences, suggestions for expanding and diversifying CS programs, how pedagogical approaches evolve over time through experimentation and reflection, the importance of listening to and working with kids one-on-one, and much more.
- How to Get Started with Computer Science Education
  - In this episode I provide a framework for how districts and educators can get started with computer science education for free.
- Individualized Learning Without Grades with Sofía De Jesús
  - In this interview with Sofía De Jesús, we discuss Sofía’s book (Applied Computational Thinking with Python: Design algorithmic solutions for complex and challenging real-world problems), the importance of bringing your full self into the classroom, designing for equity and inclusion, working with individuals one-on-one rather than teaching to group averages, problematizing grades in education, collaborating with educators, and much more.
- Intersections of Popular Musicianship and Computer Science Practices
  - In this episode I unpack my (2020) publication titled “Intersections of popular musicianship and computer science practices,” which discusses potential implications of hardware and software practices that blur the boundaries between music making and computer science.
- Learning at Scale with Kristin Stephens-Martinez
  - In this interview with Kristin Stephens-Martinez, we discuss learning CS in large classes (e.g., 200+ students), the winding and challenging journey through education and research, recognizing the importance of representation and providing support for underrepresented identities, the benefits of peer instruction, Kristin’s podcast (CS-Ed Podcast), the disconnect between research on education and practice in the classroom, and much more.
- micro:bit, Rhizomatic Learning, and CS for Healing with Katie Henry
  - In this interview with Katie Henry, we discuss the micro:bit and the do your :bit challenge, rhizomatic learning, the potential for CS for healing, and much more.
- Music Making in Scratch: High Floors, Low Ceilings, and Narrow Walls?
  - In this episode I unpack Payne and Ruthmann’s (2019) publication titled “Music making in Scratch: High floors, low ceilings, and narrow walls,” which problematizes the limitations of making music with Scratch.
- Open Design for Learning with Aria Chernik
  - In this interview with Aria Chernik, we discuss student-centered engagement situated within authentic contexts, problems with focusing entirely on capitalistic purposes of education, using critical pedagogies to problematize power dynamics in the classroom, using an open design for learning, the phenomenology of collaboration, creating a space that encourages taking risks in education, and much more.
- Open Way Learning with Ben Owens
  - In this interview with Ben Owens, we discuss Ben’s transition from working as an engineer to working in K-12 education, opensource as a metaphor for teaching and learning, various stakeholder reactions to opensource resources and learning, bridging the gap between out-of-school and in-school learning, iterating on teaching and learning, and so much more.
- Reconceptualizing “Music Making:” Music Technology and Freedom in the Age of Neoliberalism
  - In this episode I unpack Benedict and O’Leary’s (2019) publication titled “Reconceptualizing “music making:” Music technology and freedom in the age of Neoliberalism,” which explores the use of computer science practices to counter neoliberal influence on education.
- Rhizomatic Learning with Catherine Bornhorst, Jon Stapleton, and Katie Henry
  - In this panel discussion with Catherine Bornhorst, Jon Stapleton, and Katie Henry, we discuss what rhizomatic learning is and looks like in formalized educational spaces, affordances and constraints of rhizomatic learning, how to support individual students within a group setting, standards and rhizomatic learning, why few people know and use rhizomatic learning approaches, how to advocate for and learn more about rhizomatic learning, and much more.
- More episodes related to getting started
- More episodes related to Genius Hour
- More episodes related to integration
- More episodes related to media arts
- More episodes related to scaffolding
- All other episodes
Check out Code.org’s Hour of Code activities
Learn more about micro:bits
Learn more about Unruly Splats
Explore the National Core Arts Standards
Learn more about the LAUNCH Cycle
Check out San Francisco’s PK-12 Scope and Sequence
Connect with Laura
Laura’s Donors Choose
Find other CS educators and resources by using the #CSK8 hashtag on Twitter