Recommendations for Preventing Burnout in Education (Part 2)

Building off the previous episode on depression, suicide, and CS education, this episode is a supercut of guests responding to how they take care of themselves and stave off burnout. If you have not done so yet, I highly recommend listening to last year’s supercut on the same topic, but with different guests.

  • Welcome back to another episode of the

    CSK8 podcast my name is jared o'leary

    about a year ago i released an episode

    that was a super cut on preventing

    burnout and education so a supercut is

    when you take excerpts from a variety of

    different episodes and put them all

    together into one episode on a single

    topic so in this week's episode we are

    going to listen to the responses from

    all the guests who are asked how they

    prevent burnout in education in the

    excerpts that you're about to hear

    you're mostly going to hear just the

    guests giving their advice on preventing

    burnout but sometimes i include the

    exchange that the guest and i had now i

    will announce in between each one of

    these excerpts which episode this is

    from by giving you the title for it and

    i also include a link to the particular

    episode as well as the description of

    the episode in the show notes which you

    can find at jaredaleri.com or by

    clicking the link in the app that you're

    listening to this on if you haven't

    listened to last year's episode i highly

    recommend starting there and then take a

    listen to this particular year's episode

    as there's some wonderful guests and

    some wonderful information on how to

    prevent burnout in education alright so

    the first excerpt is from episode 51

    learning at scale with kristin stevens

    martinez

    so

    for me the biggest thing

    was faculty diversity.org so it is the

    national center for faculty development

    and diversity and

    i found this resource

    i think after faculty orientation maybe

    which for me was after a semester of

    being at duke because i started in the

    spring semester

    and so i went to orientation like a

    semester late which actually in some

    ways is more useful like going to

    orientation after you've been there a

    semester is you have you actually know

    what questions you want answered

    and it's a resource intended to help you

    figure out how to make being a faculty

    make sense without burning yourself out

    so they have extremely

    practical webinars where it's like

    go through this hour and a half webinar

    and by the end of it you'll have a plan

    for your semester

    and go through this one and now you will

    start learning the process of planning

    your week every single week

    and

    there's a lot of like tips and tricks

    and those kinds of things that you can

    do in there and when i found this

    resource i was like this is this seems

    very useful to help me start figuring

    stuff out

    and

    i

    was horrible at the beginning of

    following their advice like it took time

    to figure it out and i was working

    evenings and i was working weekends and

    i was like i hate this one reason

    actually i decided to be a professor of

    the practice and i guess i we should

    define what that is so professor of the

    practice is someone who focuses more on

    teaching rather than research at duke

    university and

    there is some expectations of scholarly

    work but what's nice at duke is that we

    can kind of define what that means to

    ourselves and so for myself my scholarly

    work is going to focus more on research

    with some outreach like my podcast

    but like some people define it in other

    ways

    and so

    i chose to be

    a professor of the practice

    because

    i looked at

    the professors at berkeley which was my

    main way of comparing my main yardstick

    because that's where i went to grad

    school and admittedly it's not the most

    calibrated yardstick

    now that i've been away for a while but

    i look at them and i'm like i don't want

    your life

    i was like i don't want to work 60 hours

    a week i don't want to have this huge

    pressure of finding grants and

    publishing i don't want any of that i

    want to have the weekends to myself i

    want the weekends to my i want the

    evenings for my family

    and so that's one reason why i chose

    professor the practice because i was

    like i know at least i can do teaching

    well

    and as long as i do that well they're

    not going to fire me and so if i have to

    like

    do lots of other things

    to get that work-life balance

    no one is going to fire me over it

    and anything else i want to do on top of

    that like my podcast on my research i

    will do because i want to and it fits

    into my life

    obviously though i did not know what i

    was doing in the beginning so i was

    still working weekends and all of that

    and then adding the practices that i was

    learning from

    this resource was great because it

    started

    making certain things more visible and

    more real and helped give me the tools

    to figure out how to tweak that so for

    example the weekly planning meeting

    is where you list out all the things you

    have to do

    and then you match those things to your

    calendar like you literally block out

    time on your calendar like this is when

    i'm going to work on x another thing

    where they have you track your time like

    how long does it take you to actually

    actually do things because everyone

    suffers the planning fallacy of it

    always takes longer than you expect it

    to right and so happening you track your

    time helps you figure that out i am a

    data nerd because you know i'm a

    computer scientist and a data scientist

    so i still collect my time like i know

    exactly how long i spend on everything

    to the 15-minute increment for work and

    i did this in grad school before even

    learning about doing this as a faculty

    so picking up that habit again was very

    easy for me so knowing that information

    i am better at estimating how long it

    takes me to do things i still screw up

    like i estimated for reviewing for 60 it

    was going to take me an hour and a half

    per paper no it took me like two hours

    per paper or like two and a half hours

    per paper so i was still off but i was

    not as off as i could have been

    and so like blocking out my calendar and

    then in the beginning

    it made it very real to me to realize

    that i was underestimating how long

    things were taking me because i had to

    drag those blocks to like the weekend

    like i didn't finish this thing so now i

    have to put this in the weekend and now

    i'm spending weekend time and i feel

    this pain i'm going to remember this

    pain

    so i will fix what i'm doing to stop

    doing this it took me like a year before

    i stopped like

    working on weekends

    and

    working in the evenings like we had one

    kid at the time so like after the kid

    was in bed like pulling up my laptop and

    doing extra like email and that kind of

    thing it took me a long time but that's

    kind of probably the biggest things for

    me which was like accessing that

    resource and a lot of universities have

    yet university memberships there so just

    check your university and see if it's in

    that list because if it is then you have

    free access to all this stuff planning

    out my semester i go a little crazy in

    how i plan my semester i plan it kind of

    to the hour how many hours i'm doing

    various things for various weeks but

    like no one has to be as nuts as i am

    [Music]

    i do weekly planning i make deadlines

    feel real

    and so the way i do that is that the act

    of planning out when i'm going to do

    what

    makes deadlines feel very real to me

    because if i don't get it done in that

    time i have moved everything else over

    and that to me at least the deadline is

    feels very real at that point because

    i'm like well if i don't get this done

    now i'm not going to get it done later

    right or i have to shove something else

    over so clearly this is the this

    deadline is real even though technically

    i don't have to do this for two weeks 60

    technically we're all reviewing for 60

    now and that due date is next week i'm

    already done because i was like no if i

    don't do this now i'm not going to get

    it done later i've got other things to

    do other things are tracking my time so

    i know how long things take and then

    i kind of mentioned this before it's

    like making underestimating how long

    something takes you feel the pain like

    make you feel that pain so that you'll

    reassess how to do better next time

    i think it's still a balance i still

    plan out my days and technically my day

    is supposed to end at five but it never

    ends at five it always end at like 5 30

    or 6 and that's partially because i'm a

    bit of a workaholic like i like to do

    this stuff

    and i have the advantage of we live in a

    place where we can live on one income

    and so my husband he's technically a

    stay-at-home parent he supported me a

    lot in grad school so i feel like this

    is like the reciprocal i now hold the

    red winner bucket and he had it before

    but then what that means is like i can

    continue working my office until he goes

    to daycare picks up the three-year-old

    and brings him home and i don't really

    have to go downstairs as soon as the day

    the three-year-old is home i can like

    you know three-year-old can play with

    his dominoes or whatever and i will

    continue like getting rid of like

    finishing some last email that's how i

    kind of avoid burnout and right now also

    as since i'm on parental leave i'm

    currently going through a process now of

    kind of rediscovering how to recharge

    because of this combination of being a

    workaholic and

    having two kids now and trying to manage

    two kids

    all right so the next excerpt is titled

    situated language and learning with

    brian brown and this is from episode 53.

    i've never had a greater motivation than

    to wake up in the morning to know i've

    got 35 kids waiting on me for 7 30 start

    or 8 o'clock start and i need to be

    ready by 7 30 and then the next hour

    there's another set of kids and then

    there's another prep so completely

    different lesson plan for this third set

    of kids that motivation has never left

    me it's always been about preparing for

    kids and impacting kids and communities

    and so

    as now a college professor that

    motivation still exists it's easy to get

    motivated and prepared for people the

    research part i think the thing that has

    kept me focused is that it continues to

    move so if i started doing research on

    language and identity and its impact on

    science can't do that research anymore

    because we've been there we've done

    those studies and so the next question

    is what does this mean so now as we move

    to technology there's a new level of

    interest and so

    that part has been an enabling factor to

    keep me motivated and focused because

    one of the benefits of this job is

    intellectual work so the ideas have to

    be new so it's always moving you know

    which is at least entertaining i can say

    that much all right the excerpt from

    episode 55 is titled nikki washington is

    unapologetically dope i think this is

    the first summer that i had zero time to

    decompress so i had never in 15 years of

    teaching

    ever done summer school or anything so

    my summer was always my time to kind of

    just do whatever for three months

    and then everything with covet packing

    moving transitioning to a new job and

    creating a new course and so i am kind

    of five minutes and maybe one more class

    lecture away from a full meltdown but i

    say for me exercise

    so i walk unfortunately i can't run

    anymore due to knee injuries but i try

    to walk not as much as i should so i

    have to get back on a routine but that's

    always very helpful for me music is a

    huge

    source of zen for me

    i love music and honestly tv i'm a huge

    tv junkie so tv shows and music and

    podcasts are kind of getting me through

    all of this especially tv and music more

    so than anything so anyone who sees me

    on twitter i'm always tweeting about

    whatever i'm watching whatever i'm

    listening to

    that gives me life right now you know i

    have to definitely appreciate things

    like the versus series that started over

    covid because it gives me a chance to

    just

    remember when and be nostalgic about

    music that i enjoy tv shows like right

    now i'm watching lovecraft country and

    i'm so caught up in that and then even

    you know before watchmen or i watch a

    lot of old shows too so i'm either

    alternating between martin king of

    queens and golden girls and then during

    the day i wake up and it's living single

    girlfriends and in the heat of the night

    i'm all over the place and i tell people

    i'm high key using twitter kind of as my

    own therapy right now so you know i may

    be talking about something real serious

    at one o'clock but by nine o'clock i'm

    talking about something on tv or

    something that's popping up and it's

    hard because i feel like i'm an

    extroverted introvert so i like to be by

    myself but at the same time i like to do

    it on my terms so for me being an only

    child you know i could be very

    comfortable being home so the first

    couple of months or first couple of

    weeks in march oh it was great i guess

    just another weekend for me but then by

    april 1st it was okay you know i've had

    enough of this i need to see people and

    engage and you know here it is we're

    what

    it's september and we're still not

    outside yet so

    i've had to really find ways to step

    away from technology and just

    veg out and for me

    that's just been exercise music tv

    because there's really not much else you

    can do yet or we should be doing there's

    a lot that some people are doing but

    yeah i'm home and the next excerpt from

    episode 57 is titled amplifying voices

    for social justice with len diaz two

    things come to mind and that i really

    try to do almost on a daily basis one is

    i really

    have taken up exercising for me it

    really is has been my outlet and i try

    to do this you know every day i go for

    long walks talking here and there in

    some exercise and that really has helped

    me to sort of remove myself from

    the harsh realities the

    political darkness you know sometimes

    that we're facing and especially here

    you know in georgia things of that

    nature so i've gone into that more

    consistently lately but the other thing

    that i i do is i've really immersed

    myself into becoming a better

    coach for my team and the role that i

    have i'm very fortunate to have a small

    team and we

    hone in on coaching skills and

    strategies

    to

    help each other you know cope through

    what we're all going through but more

    importantly we leverage coaching and

    coaching skills in the work that we do

    with teachers so it helps all around it

    helps us effectively

    communicate collaborate and work

    together and support each other as a

    team

    but it also helps

    in having these conversations with

    teachers and principals and

    you know building trust and poor and

    just knowing that

    we can be there for each other but we're

    also there for the schools that we're

    working with so

    done a little bit more

    reading and freshening up on coaching

    skills

    and by the way i just want to put a plug

    in for

    audio books too

    i love audiobooks and that's something

    else that has helped me too is you know

    to

    not

    honestly having to be on a screen for

    hours and hours every day

    you know i know that's not the same

    thing as like picking up a book and

    reading but audiobooks has really helped

    me kind of also de-stress and you know

    immersed in really good books all right

    so the excerpt from episode 59 is titled

    daily stem with chris woods number one

    you got to make sure you spend time with

    your family your friends your loved ones

    just make sure that you're just spending

    that good quality time with them play

    games call grandma call grandpa call

    whoever you know use that use that phone

    for something besides you know chatting

    and texting and tick-tocking but

    honestly the biggest thing that keeps me

    going as an educator is

    being part of a team being part of a

    team of educators now right now my

    school is 100 virtual and so trying to

    connect with my fellow educators it's a

    little bit more of a challenge but we

    have a group text we have microsoft

    teams we have

    all these different ways that we can

    just stop and ask each other questions

    when we're struggling and ask those

    other teachers

    around you are you struggling you know

    hey can i help you with anything how's

    it going you know you're a first year

    teacher how's it going that's such a

    powerful question that any educator

    that's been teaching a while can ask

    that's probably the most important

    question and then also like just today i

    posted i posted in our microsoft teams i

    was like hey it's friday you know it's

    so great working with all of you you

    know just keep up the good work and

    enjoy your weekend did i have to do that

    no did anybody tell me to do that no i

    just did it because

    hey i'd want someone to do that for me

    and number two knowing that i did that

    also i think reminds me that i'm doing a

    good job too and we can all encourage

    each other so that's the biggest thing

    if we can just keep on encouraging each

    other and again especially look out for

    those new teachers those young teachers

    and things like that all right the

    excerpt from episode 61 is titled

    designing curricula at scale with gt

    roble i think this is a challenge for

    educators no matter what and my initial

    answer is community i felt so much

    solace with people frankly like you i

    think with collaborators at code.org and

    just

    feeling like there's somebody else who

    understands

    sometimes it's just the pressure

    especially the contrast between the

    vision you have for how you want things

    to be

    and how things are

    so sometimes i get tired because i have

    a lot to do

    like i gotta make an activity guide then

    a vocab list and then a video script and

    then whatever but i think

    it was more exhausting if it felt like

    my aspirations for you know what we

    wanted to achieve for students or

    you do think systemically you think big

    it can sometimes feel overwhelming like

    are we gonna get there

    so i was gonna say that i think

    community helps i think something i'm

    finding this year i'm volunteering at

    teals you and i are doing a project at

    csta and i think

    i feel reinvigorated picking

    things that put me in touch with

    individuals again and making it specific

    and i think having about 50 kids and

    working with them and they won't turn on

    their cameras but it's okay because i'm

    slowly getting to know everybody and i

    think they're getting to know me i'm

    excited i want to do it and i do think i

    reached a point as a curriculum

    developer where i said i don't know if i

    can write another lesson right now about

    introductory computer science topics or

    at least not this year i don't know if i

    can do it and part of that i think is

    you know when you've written a few

    hundred of them

    right i don't know if i have anything to

    say anymore you know or maybe i need to

    do something else but i think that

    people will say things all the time like

    give yourself grace or take a break or

    find a community but i've really i don't

    know they're doing yoga i often was the

    people would say like do yoga and i'd

    say what are you talking about like this

    is just papering over like an

    unsustainable other circumstance

    education is not going to get fixed by

    me doing yoga right and if i give myself

    grace that's not going to write that

    activity guide

    right you know or i could even say the

    words but i don't know if i could feel

    them so

    maybe for people who think like me like

    go do some stretches

    if i were going to summarize community

    focusing on specifics and the big

    picture can sometimes be overwhelming so

    saying i'm working with these 50 kids

    and i'm trusting that'll influence the

    work i do and then i'd say

    if you're like me and people have said

    things about

    burnout and they say things like give

    yourself grace or like do some yoga like

    set up a schedule or whatever

    it's easy to ignore and i think i

    actually did if i'm being honest i don't

    want to pretend to be an expert at this

    i think if i were to be truly honest i

    think i hit a tough spot earlier this

    year i think a lot of educators did that

    feeling of man this vision we had is

    falling apart and so i think leaning

    back towards

    just sort of like the things people

    often say to you but like give it a shot

    all right what do you do does any of

    that resonate with you oh definitely

    like a plus one to yoga for sure when i

    first went in to

    see a therapist this was when i was like

    at the point where i was either going to

    commit suicide or do something to get

    better and so i decided okay i might as

    well give therapy a shot see if there

    are things that i haven't tried that

    could help and one of the things that

    she recommended was doing yoga and i

    ended up doing it twice a day hour in

    the morning hour in the evening and like

    between that and then like working on

    breathing some more mindfulness stuff

    like it really helped me to just chill

    out and actually take time for myself to

    just breathe and be as opposed to like

    myself being a go go 24 7 if i didn't

    have to sleep i wouldn't kind of a thing

    it really helped out so that was a big

    thing and then i eventually found just

    getting consistent sleep was a big thing

    for me eating healthier i started

    learning more about nutrition and diet

    and eventually became vegan over time

    just like by learning more about that

    exercising every day like all these

    little things that i do that make me

    seem regimented in terms of like my diet

    and my lifestyle like all of that is

    about trying to not be depressed and not

    have those suicidal thoughts and like it

    helped me to get off the antidepressants

    that i was on they were having all these

    like adverse side effects and whatnot

    that i was like okay it's making so i

    don't want to kill myself but i have all

    these other things that i now have to

    worry about so what can i do to make it

    so i don't have to be on antidepressants

    and i'm not depressed if that makes

    sense yeah it really does

    i was curious your thoughts on whether

    cs education in particular demands some

    of that go-go-go i wonder a little bit

    if like the current moment we're in for

    the field and i'm sort of saying this

    because i imagine a lot of the listeners

    to this podcast are watching the people

    on twitter they're going to the

    conferences they realize that's such an

    important moment but i think that may

    contribute to the problem you're asking

    about and i think it also attracts

    people who want to make an impact it is

    something i've been reflecting on but

    i'm curious your thoughts on it like do

    you think there's something it's true

    for all of education i think in many

    ways but do you think specifically just

    the moment we're in for cs education

    like is that is there an additional

    layer of pressure right now certainly

    and especially with all the remote

    learning but even before covid was a

    thing like programming in particular

    software development you could learn a

    language and then in five years that

    language is obsolete like nobody uses it

    anymore so you're just constantly having

    to learn new things and just everything

    that you knew the week prior okay now

    there's this new way to do it or this

    better way to do it and on one hand

    that's great because it's like if you

    want to learn cool tech cs like this is

    a field for you i happen to thrive in

    that environment but that being said

    it can also be overwhelming if you don't

    take a break from it so one of the

    things that i've been having to remind

    myself is like

    rest is to the mind as sharpening is to

    the axe like you have to take a break

    from something and i say this to

    somebody who literally taught seven days

    a week i teach a full-time gig during

    the day i teach part-time at night and

    then i teach all day saturday and sunday

    like private lessons or drumline and

    things like that so having done that and

    experienced it i also see the value in

    taking a break from it so that when you

    come back to it you can have a clear and

    focused mind to be able to focus on that

    learning and whatnot yeah i think it's

    important i don't expect the dream

    vision of work that i think maybe my

    generation in particular was sold but

    sort of just like yo if you love your

    work you'll never work a day in your

    life and like that's not true like

    you're going to work a lot of days of

    your life right but there should be some

    core excitement and i think if you feel

    like it's getting dulled i like the

    metaphor of a dull acts like and not

    everybody has the freedom to make

    choices to step away or recharge or

    something like that that definitely

    resonates for me i told you i really

    appreciated you doing a show like this

    because i think a lot of passionate

    educators are feeling really deflated

    this year yeah one thing i was going to

    say about that i actually see it my new

    role as well

    i think

    letting go of how it used to be is so

    important right now and i'm actually

    being in a new space is giving me the

    ability to see that which is that

    if you knew how you wanted it to be or

    how it used to be

    right now hurts because it's not like

    that that can be a needless distractor

    from how good could we make it given the

    realities i don't say that to be naive

    i i know there's a lot of challenges but

    i do think that there's this extra layer

    of kind of like mourning every time

    something doesn't look the way it did

    pre-covered

    and

    i want to validate that's real and then

    also say if we can put it aside and say

    like all right here's the new reality

    how good could we make it

    i think there's space to rediscover that

    motivation and excitement

    i don't say this to foot like extra

    pressure but if you're aiming to help

    people and that's i think what motivates

    a lot help them learn help them teach

    whatever it happens to be i think the

    morning process or the sadness is real

    you want to make sure you're listening

    to people when they're talking but if

    you can kind of bring a more excited

    or

    a calm version of yourself to whatever

    it is you're doing you'll be happier i

    think you'll help people more and i

    think that does mean letting go a little

    bit i've struggled with that so i don't

    want to pretend it's easy but it is

    something that i think being in a new

    space people will tell me it used to be

    this way but we can't do it anymore and

    the halfway virtual version like you

    know wouldn't even be close and i think

    if somebody knew i think it'd be pretty

    good i'd rather do the halfway virtual

    version than nothing at all like so

    let's give it a shot yeah i like that it

    really resonates with why i went into

    education in particular before i decided

    to go into it for my degrees and whatnot

    i had worked some like office jobs and

    even worked as

    like a professional stainer and finisher

    for closet doors that cost like more

    than i paid for my house so like this

    like range of experiences where either

    was interacting with people

    like as a manager at blockbuster or

    interacting with closet doors that

    wouldn't talk to you so like having that

    experience and knowing what it's like to

    go in every day and be able to expect

    the same thing i didn't like that one of

    the things that i loved about the

    volunteer teaching that i was doing was

    every day it was something new there was

    some new

    challenge or problem solve or some new

    thing that i had to learn and so i guess

    if you are able to frame 2020 in that

    way then there can be

    at least a positive framing of that that

    being said there's a lot of things going

    on in the world that we still need to

    acknowledge that are problematic and

    that are troubling a lot of people but

    if you are able to at least reframe some

    things as a positive then hopefully

    that's beneficial for you

    i think finding community to help you do

    that is really useful too both to say

    hey let's do five minutes or we all say

    all the things that are really hard and

    then here's the candles that were we're

    holding on to of the shining lights of

    optimism or hope and

    yeah i think that finding people who are

    willing to do both with you and be

    helpful especially if you acknowledge

    that they're tied to one another in my

    opinion like i'm hopeful because i want

    this thing to happen i want to do it

    together i want it to be good i'm

    saddened because i see all of these

    obstacles and challenges and they're

    very real right but the other thing it's

    not like education used to be this easy

    field where everything was working

    exactly how everybody wanted it to work

    which is not i don't want to be glib i'm

    just saying like if you're working side

    by side with educators this is a tough

    group there's a group that has had to

    look in the eye a lot of difficult

    situations i'd say by and large when i

    get together with educators i'm really i

    see the optimism i see that that's why

    they're there and i think that being

    able to continue to kindle that with one

    another possible i think it's possible

    to do in communal settings yeah i like

    that especially the framing of is we've

    always had challenges now it's just

    different challenges i think it's true

    and i can also fully say that i feel

    like a manager said that to me i know

    that a little part of me would say oh

    but come on like we all know this is

    rough like this is way different like it

    is worse and that's what i'm saying i

    think you need to be able to do both i

    think you need to be able to have like

    five minutes of like

    and then say

    and say yeah but this is pretty good we

    made it better than it was we're getting

    closer it was always tough you know

    there might be two steps forward and one

    step back so yeah i want to be real i

    know it was a difficult year it's a

    particularly difficult year for

    education but i think that we all serve

    ourselves better if we try to find that

    communal hope and now an excerpt from

    episode 63 which is titled suggestions

    and considerations for district-wide

    implementation with abi funabiki this is

    a good question and i think i am getting

    better

    at taking vacations and making sure i

    take time off or when i finish a big

    project make sure i celebrate that a

    little bit before just moving on to the

    next one

    i've actually really liked all of your

    suggestions from your guests in these

    podcasts i guess one thing

    i've talked about with some of our staff

    is

    how nice all day vacations and full week

    vacations are

    as opposed to just spreading out time

    off

    you know in half days or short amounts

    of time it's really nice to completely

    get away

    and focus on other things for a couple

    days i think

    yeah it's important because like you've

    said it to me where it's like oh yeah

    like i had to work out over the weekend

    so i'm planning on taking like a half

    day or two then you have said well it'd

    probably be better if you took like a

    full day off and then that way your

    brain isn't like half committed to

    resting for and half committed to

    working for most of the day and for

    somebody like me because my brain won't

    shut off and i'm just constantly

    thinking about work it's a lot easier

    for me to take a full day or a full week

    my friends and family make fun of me i

    have a lot of hobbies so that for some

    people if it's a good fit could be a

    self-care

    recommendation what are some example

    hobbies that you like to engage in i

    personally have found it's really nice

    to have like a tactical hobby and then

    also a mindless hobby and then also a

    hobby where you're learning something it

    depends what mood i'm in

    depends on my hobbies but my biggest one

    is probably just reading you know so i

    do

    find time to read every day

    and i'm not saying i'm good at any of

    these things but i enjoy them

    so a more tactical one would be painting

    i grew up woodworking with my family so

    i continue to do some woodworking and

    projects in the garage

    my learning hobby right now is i'm

    learning the mandolin

    so taking lessons and i just feel like

    it's so good for my brain to be learning

    something brand new once a week that

    really pushes my brain to think in a new

    different way so i love backpacking

    mountain biking hiking

    when i have time i feel like it's

    important to also have you know more

    accessible hobbies so that's kind of

    where some of these less time-intensive

    copies come into play and the following

    excerpt from episode 65 is titled see us

    for all teachers with melissa raspberry

    one thing for sure has been and this you

    know may or may not be possible for

    teachers when they're on live with their

    students but certainly there's some

    meetings that

    where

    i just cut my camera off and just like

    i'm here i'm listening i'm focused i

    just can't do the camera right now

    because there certainly is something

    about you know looking at your own image

    or just like oh that's interesting

    what's that picture back there behind

    his head or oh look at the dog is that a

    dog in the background you know we get so

    distracted by so many things and you

    know sometimes having that that like

    truly

    we did work before

    virtually without having to see into

    people's homes all day every day some of

    it is just cutting the camera off time

    and still being able to stay you know

    stay focused stay connected but not

    having to have the camera on

    something i'm trying to do more

    is

    like i just said like i have to get up

    and just change scenery a friend of mine

    said this you know it's like going and

    looking out the window or sitting

    outside and

    just like focusing on a bug crawling on

    the ground it's like just bringing your

    attention to something else that you

    know is away from where you are but i'll

    be honest to say it it's tough because

    you know where's book even though i

    worked from home there generally was

    something in the evening that was taking

    me away from sitting here so whether it

    was oh i'm going to go to the grocery

    store

    or

    you know everyone's favorite going to

    target or i have a meeting that i have

    to drive to or some other thing that i'm

    doing that was physically taking me away

    from home that's not really happening as

    much like oh i have a meeting again on

    zoom

    or or you know

    my grocery store is going to pick it up

    because i've ordered it online or it's

    being delivered or whatever the case

    might be and so i think we really do

    have to be intentional with that and a

    big big part of it i think is changing

    your scenery but again maybe

    moving your desk a little bit or going

    and looking out a different window as

    you're working i think all of those

    things help and the following excerpt

    from episode 67 is called exploring

    computer science with joanna goode i

    think again relying on colleagues and

    friends and having these conversations

    so it doesn't feel like it's a

    solo endeavor or such a load because it

    can be you know systemic racism is not

    the easiest to swallow

    and you know as a white person i am very

    conscious of how i can

    sort of turn off the computer and walk

    into the grocery store and have an

    experience that is validating all the

    systemic racism but validating it from a

    place that continues to give me

    privilege

    and that can be challenging as well

    i believe in self-care i like to get

    sunshine it's the opposite of the

    computing part reminds me of my

    commodore 64 and my mother always coming

    up and saying go outside and play go

    climb a tree and she would kick me out

    of the house

    and i tried to still do that like okay

    i've been at the computer go down and i

    like to garden i found that really

    restorative for me to feel like my

    fingers in the soil and to grow and to

    nurture

    and also i have always been a swimmer

    and i still swim so that gives another

    layer to this given that swimming is a

    metaphor on being stuck in the shallow

    end because swimming is a great form of

    self-care and yet i finish this work and

    i often go pop to the swimming pool and

    i feel great and i have incredibly

    awesome exercise

    and i look around myself

    and i'm surrounded by mostly other white

    people swimming at the swimming pool so

    it's that self-care but the constant i

    mean we live in a society

    where to get to my swimming pool

    nowadays i have to have a reservation

    then you walk through either the women's

    locker room or the men's locker room to

    get to the pool

    so it's almost the things are so clear

    how we do this gendering and this racing

    and i can't i never shake it because i

    think it's who i am i think about these

    issues all the time but i try to do the

    healthy exercise and the being grounded

    in my place and in my community

    to remind myself that these ideas and

    issues are all connected but we can only

    work on it when we take care of

    ourselves and we're able to show up and

    do the work

    all right the excerpt from episode 69 is

    titled

    csk8 visions by vicky sedgwick i'm

    really bad at that i will admit i tend

    to be a workaholic

    and it's a lot tougher now that work is

    at home right so i have to try and

    physically say

    i'm turning off the computer i am

    turning it off and leaving the room i

    will admit i'm not good at it i've been

    trying to be better the last month or so

    because i found myself

    just being on edge and stressed out and

    i know it's because i'm spending too

    much time working pre-covet i love to go

    to concerts right but of course i can't

    do that now i do attend some online but

    again that i'm still in front of a

    computer right and it's not the same

    experience as going to a live concert so

    i don't find it quite as satisfying and

    it isn't the escape from being on a

    device

    right i also really love photography and

    i love to go out on photo walks and just

    take pictures from unusual perspectives

    and stuff like that i have not done that

    much lately because it's been 90 plus

    degrees out and was very smoky for a

    while because of the fires so i haven't

    been walking too much but the weather

    will turn at some point and then i'll go

    out and do more of that so then i also

    get you know where i'm moving because i

    find i don't move as much as i should

    too so and sometimes i'll just you know

    read some stupid book that has nothing

    to do with anything you know that's

    totally an escapist book and then it's

    not on a device it's an actual book and

    you know i'm not trying to learn

    anything from it so yeah i used to be

    non-fiction only like i was like well

    what's the point if i'm not learning

    something new and then i was like okay a

    lot of people keep saying they really

    value getting into fiction and so i

    tried it and i feel like it one it helps

    relax me like i do it before i fall

    asleep but two it also just like opens

    up new perspectives and ways of thinking

    and like just helps with creativity

    which is a heavy load on my job like i'm

    constantly creating new projects and

    lessons and things like that so i

    personally find a lot of value in that

    and then your comments about just

    getting up and moving that also relates

    to why you saw me yesterday in the

    meeting while walking on a treadmill

    like i'm tired of sitting in meetings

    like for eight hours a day so i need to

    make sure i'm moving yeah i like that

    i'm working on a desktop right now and i

    can't get it high enough to even stand

    so i'm trying to work out something

    where i can readjust it so i can move my

    big monitor up and be able to stand

    because just even being able to stand

    rather than sit is helpful i find you

    know so now we have an excerpt from

    episode 71 which is titled considering

    leisure and education with roger manti

    just like the people at mit for example

    who felt the need to

    balance out things in their lives

    because i spend so much time in front of

    a computer and so much time reading and

    thinking and writing and everything else

    because i'm no longer you know actively

    teaching music as music in the way that

    i used to but then of late you know

    i mean i haven't found people to be

    playing my saxophone with when i'm now

    picking up the flute and i'm learning

    irish flute music you know just for fun

    to do that so that's at least one

    musical outlet but for the most part you

    know i just like to do physically active

    things

    just to balance out you know all the

    reading heavy you know text computer

    screen type of things i mean you got to

    get outside you got to do something else

    so i like to do that i did resume my

    squash career a little bit and then of

    course everything got shut down again so

    i like to do sports you know it's more

    fun

    our next excerpt is from episode 73 and

    it is titled vulnerability reflection

    and cs education with amy co

    i want to start off just by recognizing

    the page and my business and my

    productivity it's probably a huge source

    of imposter syndrome for a lot of people

    because they can't imagine how i get all

    of these things done and they're

    struggling too so i just want to

    acknowledge that i struggle with it too

    why i have so many practices for it to

    make it better and i've been practicing

    the productivity piece of it for a long

    time way back when i was starting middle

    school back in sixth grade i mentioned

    that my mom was a grade school teacher

    too

    she was the most organized person i knew

    she had a lot of paper planners that she

    used for everything she was very

    organized about her lesson and unit

    plans for school and for teaching

    and since she was kind of my teacher

    role model growing up i wanted a planner

    too so really really early on in middle

    school i had a planner and to-do list

    and a calendar

    way overkill

    for the time right but it just meant

    that i had all of these practices that i

    was constantly cultivating and i saw

    hers and she would ask me questions

    about it like is that working for you do

    you want to change anything about it we

    can go to this store at the mall and

    they can give you a different kind of

    to-do list if you want a different one

    so the idea that we build practices to

    manage our time something i learned

    really early on and then just got better

    at over time what are ways outside of

    the productivity that you

    rest or

    disconnect from the busyness and being

    productive yeah one of them is just the

    practice of drawing really sharp lines

    around things i work fixed hours i stop

    working at a certain time i don't look

    at work emails after a certain time i

    don't work on the weekends unless i've

    traded some weekday time for some

    weekend time i'm really strict about how

    much time i give my job there are weird

    edge cases being you know as a professor

    i'm supposed to follow my curiosity so

    if i'm curious about something and i

    want to go follow it does that work

    right is it not work i don't really know

    so there's some fuzzy boundaries there

    when it comes to research and

    scholarship you know but i really do

    unplug from work in ways that i think

    sometimes other people struggle to do i

    got good at that when i was a parent in

    graduate school i wanted to have time

    for my family and be there with my

    family and i just decided that grad

    school was going to be a nine-to-five

    job so i'd show up in the office at nine

    and i'd leave at five and i'd know that

    i'd have eight hours to get all of my

    classwork and research and other random

    service done and it kind of meant that i

    didn't spend a lot of time socializing

    like a lot of my peers did i just

    focused on my family and my research and

    then squeezed in social stuff into

    travel and other things but it just

    meant that i wasn't thinking about work

    when i was doing other stuff that was

    really a nice way of kind of making

    space for other things that mattered in

    my life and our next excerpt from

    episode 77 is titled healthy boundaries

    with siobhan grady if 2020 taught me

    anything it was how to have healthy

    boundaries and boundaries are not only

    for personal they are professional too

    and i know that's hard for some people

    given whatever job they may have but it

    is important that you let people know

    when they're overstepping a boundary for

    instance if someone's asking you to meet

    at a time that you already have book for

    something else then you just tell them

    no you don't double book yourself i

    think a lot of times we're trying to

    please other people and in the end we're

    hurting ourselves so i would say

    implement boundaries

    practice self-care

    i didn't realize up until last year that

    many people don't even

    do self-care

    self-care is loving yourself

    loving yourself might mean an hour in

    the morning each day before you get

    started where you just meditate or

    reflect or whatever that is your time or

    in the evening or going walking or

    taking a bath

    lighting candles whatever it takes that

    is a part of self-care and i think that

    in order to have more balance we have to

    realize when we're actually just doing

    too much and that would also require

    looking at a planner if all of the hours

    in the day are booked up with work

    you're not doing that right

    we're not robots

    we are meant to get sleep and that's

    another thing we don't get the proper

    rest we're not at our best either when

    we're not hydrated getting a proper rest

    it starts coming out in other areas so i

    would just say for me one thing that i

    do is i implement boundaries i practice

    self-care loving myself that could be me

    going on a daily walk or like i said an

    hour in the morning or evening just with

    myself just unwinding reflecting and

    that's what has helped me tremendously

    all right the excerpt from episode 80 is

    titled individualized learning without

    grades with sophia de jesus so i didn't

    avoid the burnout completely as i am

    stepping out of the classroom for a bit

    but i did take a job that was

    educational in nature because i still

    want to coach and i still want to teach

    and i am an educator and that's who i am

    i didn't avoid the burnout as much as i

    wish i would have but

    i will say that i am lucky in that i

    think that the classrooms that i had

    built were a lot easier to exist in a

    covet world than if i had to redo

    everything what i mean by that is yes my

    robotics classes are difficult one of my

    classes we could do because we have

    robots for each child and we kept it at

    under 10 because we very generously

    revolution robotics donated those robots

    so we were able to do that we couldn't

    do

    all trimesters because between trimester

    and one and two for example there was

    only one day we couldn't clean

    everything get everything ready for the

    next group so trimester two we adapted

    the class trimester three we're back at

    the robots because

    three months have gone by and now we can

    use the robots again but one of the

    things is my seventh and eighth grade

    classes we didn't have enough robots to

    kind of run that and we have a lot more

    students who wanted the class so i can't

    have 18 individual robots for example or

    something more computational and so we

    do some simulations but we also do other

    things

    i created something where we are always

    working around problems so we address

    some problems you know and that may be

    an ill-defined game based problem or it

    can be something else that's easily

    adaptable or a lot easier than if i am

    married to i have to have my

    smart board in front of me a projector

    and uh whatever and the materials that i

    have in the room or

    because i adapt my classes to be very

    individualistic

    i feel like i didn't make as many

    changes or concessions as i would have

    had if i was 10 years ago me in that

    respect i think i got lucky i think my

    students are still having fun they're

    still getting in trouble for you doing

    stuff for my class in other classes

    which i always find fun

    it's interesting because when i get a

    complaint from a teacher like i caught

    your student working on their minecraft

    project

    i have to respond i'm so sorry i'll talk

    to him and inside i'm like yes they were

    interested

    i am very proud of the fact that my

    students continue to work even though

    they don't have homework so those kinds

    of things i think my classes are easier

    to adapt to whatever it is that's thrown

    at them because of the way that they are

    set up but at the same time it takes a

    toll to have to

    teach as many classes i'm also helping

    with the instructional piece a lot how

    do i use technology in the classroom

    i've run quite a bit of pd in my school

    this year helping with some of the deij

    stuff with with our director of the eij

    and some of the counseling pieces

    with our counselor with our learning

    specialist i partner with a lot of

    people in the school just to make sure

    that we have what we need and i do you

    know i've been lucky because again my

    administration is super supportive of

    what it is that i do

    and so we've been sharing as much as

    possible with others so that it can

    maybe hopefully help them adjust and

    adapt in an easier way

    but what i want to do this whole year

    again

    not in a million years not as an

    educator

    been too much and it's

    somebody will inevitably fall through

    the cracks because we have students on

    screen we have students in the room i

    said this recently

    you know i got to a point with a student

    where they finally shared you know their

    passion for anime etc and i had such a

    fun conversation with the student and i

    was so excited and we were talking a

    couple of us teachers were talking and i

    said i finally got through to this kid

    and we had this amazing conversation and

    then i said but yet

    i know that the six months it took me to

    get here it would have taken me a month

    if we were in person right that's the

    piece that i miss the most is

    i want that connection with my students

    i have a really good connection with

    some of them because some of my students

    are in multiple classes with me so i

    have had students who have seen every

    single trimester for the last three

    years but there's others who are new and

    i still don't know them as well right

    and that's the part that's difficult as

    an educator because our connections to

    our students are so important and for me

    to know them as individuals in this

    setting is hard and the next excerpt

    from episode 82 is titled lessons

    learned from csta chapters across the

    united states with jason bohr i think

    for me we talked a little bit before

    about you know being workaholics and i

    was involved in so many different things

    you know i taught english i taught

    computer science i coach

    some years three different sports you

    know it might look like you're spreading

    yourself thin but in many ways

    was if i was feeling burnt out in my

    english classes

    computer science classes would give me

    back up you know get me excited

    particular sport wasn't doing too well

    you know we weren't having a great

    season was you know the next sport

    coming up getting excited about that so

    i think you know it's a balance for sure

    to find you know how much you can do and

    how much what your capacity is

    but i feel like that's what helped me

    was being involved across multiple

    fronts you know and if i wasn't having a

    good day here i could still have a good

    day over here you know that kind of

    approach and our next excerpt from

    episode 84 is titled the rise of cs

    across the pond with phil bagg burnett

    is something that happens for all

    teachers and i do massively worry at the

    moment in the uk for the head teachers

    i have never seen so much workload put

    on them by covid regulations and all

    sorts of other things i very much fear

    for our education system in the next

    couple of years because i think we're

    going to lose a lot of head teachers and

    experienced head teachers are really

    valuable and can make a big difference

    and i wonder whether we might lose some

    teachers in that as well and our

    following excerpt from episode 86 is

    titled computing education research with

    mark guzdail i can't tell you that i

    don't get burnt out i will tell you that

    it helps that i have a really good

    family life you know we take off certain

    time every night you know we have dinner

    together and just talk we can make sure

    that we take off hours and spend time

    together i run the things that one picks

    up during the pandemic is i've become a

    big fan of meditation i try to do

    meditation a couple times a day and it

    really helps to be mindful and to ground

    myself and it's helped a lot with stress

    and sleep

    so

    i actually have fun doing this

    i do computing because i enjoy it

    my wife and i barbara erickson who's

    been my research collaborator on lots of

    things we wrote the media computation

    books together and did georgia computes

    and especially together barbara sees

    computing as being a puzzle she loves to

    figure out how the algorithm works and

    how to make it better and what's going

    on here i've never had that puzzle

    perspective i've never gotten into

    computing as problem solving for me

    programming is this cool set of lego

    bricks

    and i can put them together in all kinds

    of different ways to make things

    and if it gets hard i sort of like okay

    i'm going to do the simplest dumbest

    inefficientist way of making this work

    when barbara and i were writing the

    books i would leave notes in the source

    code okay barb i know this is a sucky

    algorithm could you please just fix it

    and not give me grief about it because

    she's much better at that than me so i

    get to play with tinker toys and uh

    erector sets all day long it's great all

    right so the next excerpt from episode

    listening to students with dominic

    sanders so i enjoy running i'm a part of

    black men run there was a little group

    that i used to run with weekly again i

    just moved here to south carolina so

    i'll be doing that shortly i also enjoy

    music but then for me what also helps

    prevent like burnout i always like think

    about my student like i said i have like

    pictures of my students on the desk

    that's i guess always thinking about

    like my why like why i signed up for

    this like in the first place i know

    there's gonna be like challenging times

    and you know like hard trials and

    tribulations but i always think about

    the student that you know looked up to

    me as brother uncle you know dad

    whatever it was like what would they

    want me to do in this situation think

    about the student that was

    busting 30 or 40 miles just to have a

    seat in my classroom just so they can

    you know make a better opportunity for

    themselves and their family i always try

    to like travel it back to my why

    and then that kind of like keeps me

    grounded

    and then another thing that kind of like

    motivates me is like my grandmother she

    always talked about like the importance

    of education

    and then that like she unfortunately had

    to stop in like middle school that's

    always like my growing piece to like

    keep going and remember that like the

    people before me like didn't get a

    chance to keep going because they had to

    so like let me make sure that i'm

    creating practices and policies to make

    sure that from kindergarten through 12th

    grade if this is what you want to do if

    this computer science is you know your

    path or whatever your path is in this

    realm is make sure that i'm creating

    spaces and opportunities for you to

    succeed and get across the finish line

    and the following excerpt from episode

    connections with gene rue it's funny

    because i think you're assuming i'm not

    burned out

    no but i mean that's partially a joke

    partially not i think this entire time

    of pandemic has really burned everyone

    out specifically in education everyone's

    working so so hard so i feel really

    fried i think all of us have been saying

    yes to more than we have the capacity to

    say yes to and at the same time it's

    expected of us to say yes and at the

    same time we want to say yes because we

    see all that like could be we don't want

    to stop because we want to make things

    better

    and

    currently i feel really fried i don't

    feel like a vacation would even fully

    heal me right and at the risk of

    sounding cheesy though i think that like

    yeah i think meditation practice helps i

    think that yoga practice helps i think

    that swimming helps i think that

    going for a walk helps like i think

    laughter helps with like people who

    don't work at all in your field

    who are like thinking about different

    things

    really is important and i am so

    appreciative of like my community of

    friends and family who

    work in different spheres and are

    thinking about different things that we

    can come together and share and like wow

    you know

    it helps give me perspective and gives

    like breathes new life into what i'm

    thinking about we're working on

    but yeah i think that the self-care

    thing is so huge

    and it's like i totally am not doing it

    very well

    but i'm trying how do you not burn out

    it's an ongoing and ever-changing

    process kind of like what you're saying

    with equity like depending on the

    context depending on so many different

    factors like it shifts and somebody who

    is chronic depression like the tool bag

    of tricks that i have that helps me

    not feel depressed and when it was

    really bad not feel suicidal

    each tool

    has a different use for a different time

    or context or purpose and they don't

    always all work

    so

    like you mentioned with meditation and

    yoga yeah those have been fantastic

    for most of the time but sometimes

    they haven't worked well for me so muay

    thai works really well going and hitting

    my tie back downstairs like that

    something i enjoy doing or playing video

    games or playing with my dogs or

    rating something whether it's like

    artwork or music or whatever like there

    are many different things

    that i try and do

    to assist with that and so i've gone

    like as far as like

    creating a spreadsheet that would

    measure each like 10 minute interval of

    the day and i would like write down what

    i was doing and then write down how i

    felt so i could really try and analyze

    what exactly is it that makes me feel

    good and what does not you don't have to

    go that deep into that it worked well

    and i don't do that anymore but

    basically just each day now going and

    reflecting on what

    is something that made me feel good or

    like lit my fire and just made me really

    excited about something and just keeping

    that in basically a journal or a

    spreadsheet so when i'm feeling down or

    feeling off i can go to that and say

    okay here's 100 ideas that have worked

    for me in the past

    one of them is bound to work for me in

    this moment so let me just do a quick

    review of it okay i'm going to go try

    that thing and then i go and do that

    that's really cool wow that spreadsheet

    sounds amazing

    talk about like

    mindfulness

    you know

    yeah and they have apps for it i just

    ended up creating my own my therapist

    recommended an app but i didn't have

    enough of like the range of emotions

    that i wanted to be able to express and

    like the kind of activities that i was

    engaging in so i wanted to be more

    granular and being ocd so i went in and

    just kind of basically created my own

    like drop down menu for each one of the

    cells so

    pro tip

    that's amazing and thank you also for

    being so open about like struggle with

    depression because it's like i think

    that we need to be

    more open and discussing like these

    realities i feel like i've been

    struggling with anxiety especially

    during the pandemic and as i get older

    that anxiety increases and so it's kind

    of like

    finding these ways to

    i don't think it ever fully goes away

    right like it's not like depression is

    suddenly healed one day i don't think

    anxiety is suddenly healed one day but

    it's like the

    how do we come to

    see it acknowledge it and then like find

    ways to work through it

    because i also think about like

    the unhealthy practices that i have as a

    human being

    and that

    like add flame to my anxieties how i'm

    imprinting those things on my son

    like i'm so like that's a huge fear of

    mine which creates more anxiety by the

    way but like you know just like

    how do i not create that like

    same kind of patterning my parents are

    amazing i love them dearly but for sure

    there are probably things that they did

    that

    you know impact the way that i also

    think and behave and i know that there

    are things that i'm doing

    that he will definitely need therapy for

    as well when he's an adult

    and so it's just that like

    yeah it's

    i don't know it's interesting and next

    up from episode 92 we have lessons

    learned from informal cs education with

    grant smith i say no now

    there's a balance right and i'm now

    in a position where i can't take on

    many additional projects

    i wouldn't be able to write a 550 page

    book right now i wouldn't be able to

    make a whole pd course we've even put

    our instagram account on hold because of

    what i'm doing now in my current

    position it's just too much right and

    i want to have that balance i don't want

    to burn out i want to be able to see my

    kids

    and so there is a lot to be done

    there is so much ahead of us that needs

    to be done but we're no good to each

    other if we all burn out and we need to

    find that balance in our lives and we

    need to find out what works for us

    i know we've talked about

    teachers who end up leaving to go back

    into software development right because

    the pay is not good enough that's

    another form of burnout and we need to

    find places that we can feel impactful

    effective but also sustainable

    so yeah it's all about the sustainable

    got to take care of ourselves and the

    final interview at least in the last

    year from episode 95 is titled exploring

    disability and connecting with the arts

    with jesse rathgeber the thing that i

    probably should have learned earlier on

    is that having some way to separate my

    work thoughts even if it's not necessary

    work life like and it's never going to

    be 100 balanced all the time in fact

    that's not how balance works right but

    it's the notion of being conscious of

    having time to unplug and having time to

    be fully um plugged in and not

    necessarily being halfway during the

    summer right now i've made it that

    generally most afternoons i don't do a

    lot of stuff i'm now on the ramp up

    towards school so i'm doing more

    afternoon kind of things but i needed

    that during the school year i've done a

    lot better about unless i have an ex

    required thing at seven o'clock

    everything shuts off i don't check email

    anymore that's it i tell the students

    that as well i tell them like hey if

    something's due the next day you're

    probably not going to email me the night

    it's due

    and i put it in the syllabi just so that

    they all know like and it's all as much

    just me trying to model for them that

    you need to do this you need to have

    some unplugging time i have a couple

    activities that i really love doing that

    i can get and completely engrossed in

    that will force me to not think about

    most educational or most of my

    professional work number one is

    rebuilding guitars and like messing

    around with their wiring i have a strat

    in the other room that i have rewired

    four times in the last week and a half

    and it still doesn't play

    and i don't know what it is but when i'm

    working on it hours pass

    and i listen to a podcast and i not once

    do i think about other stuff i also i've

    gotten really deep back into my vinyl

    collection well my vinyl i'm searching

    specific things i'm trying to not be a

    like a big collector i have tons of

    stuff a specific album so i'll come down

    here and i'm lucky i have an office

    space that's kind of nice and cool arch

    and chillers are down here and i just

    sit and listen to an album and i do the

    whole album

    just to kind of take a break those

    things have been really really important

    and i think the last one is i'm trying

    to differentiate like when i'm at work i

    do work stuff so like when i'm at my

    school office which i can't right now

    they're renovating it but like that's

    where i get all my school work done so

    this space that we're talking i actually

    don't do a ton of school work at anymore

    because i try to do it at work the

    notion of separation having something

    else to do and also having kind of a

    musical thing to do has been helpful i

    mean our dogs are always

    like they make you

    do something right and then i also have

    recently invested in a hammock so when

    it's not raining i go out and lay in the

    hammock for an hour or so just to kind

    of clear my mind yeah that was nice yeah

    it has been it's been one of the best

    investments i mean the fact that i have

    multiple things to share now i think

    when you and i met i would not have had

    anything that i could have shared that

    would have

    been my relaxation because i didn't

    value relaxation and then i had a mental

    breakdown

    so you know that's what happens i'm glad

    that you asked that because like i try

    really hard in my classes anymore even

    freshmen because i teach a freshman

    intro to college class i really try to

    impress upon them that also the notion

    of valuing rest and that rest is as

    central to getting things done as just

    trying to work on it and so like we talk

    about like okay you have this essay to

    write and how do you break it up okay

    well well i've got three hours to write

    out right now it's like no no no that's

    good but like you might try that but

    your brain might not work that way and

    some people do but you should test out a

    couple different ways of approaching it

    because i think having these

    conversations is

    important it does break some of the

    stigma of talking about mental health it

    also breaks the stigma of feeling like

    you're selfish for taking care of

    yourself like i did i often felt like i

    should be doing this i should be doing

    that i should be doing that but the only

    person who thought i should be doing

    that was my brain that didn't want me to

    relax i don't know about for you but at

    least for me especially in the doctoral

    program there were so many high

    achievers in the program that even if

    one person was taking a break i would

    not be looking at that break i'd be

    looking at the other person who happened

    to not be taking a break at that time so

    it always just felt like well somebody

    out there is working really hard so i

    also need to be doing that yep it's

    almost that fear of missing out but in

    working there's some right now i see so

    many people who are like well i just

    published this i just published this

    like that's great for them that's really

    great for them i used to go like oh that

    sucks that i didn't do that and maybe

    that's one of the mental health secrets

    is knowing how to celebrate others

    and not to see their successes somehow

    tied to your failure all right so here's

    a quote that i'd like to review is from

    lao tzu so it's people don't get tired

    of enjoying and praising one who not

    competing as an all the world no

    competitor and that is a quote that like

    really sits with me and kind of

    resonates with what you were saying and

    with that that concludes this week's

    episode of the csk8 podcast i really

    hope these suggestions for preventing

    burnout are helpful and again if you

    haven't listened to the episode from

    last year make sure you check out the

    show notes which includes a link to

    episode 49 so you can take a listen to

    the recommendations from the previous

    year thank you so much for listening i

    hope you consider sharing and stay tuned

    next week for another episode until then

    stay safe and i hope you're all having a

    wonderful week

Resources/Links Relevant to This Episode

  • Listen to the episode from last year with different guests

  • Listen to the full episodes of each excerpt

    • How to Get Started with Computer Science Education

      • In this episode I provide a framework for how districts and educators can get started with computer science education for free.

    • 51 Learning at Scale with Kristin Stephens-Martinez

      • In this interview with Kristin Stephens-Martinez, we discuss learning CS in large classes (e.g., 200+ students), the winding and challenging journey through education and research, recognizing the importance of representation and providing support for underrepresented identities, the benefits of peer instruction, Kristin’s podcast (CS-Ed Podcast), the disconnect between research on education and practice in the classroom, and much more.

    • 53 Situated Language and Learning with Bryan Brown

      • In this interview Bryan Brown, we discuss the importance of language in education. In particular, we discuss the role of language in teaching and learning, discursive identity, situated language and learning, the importance of representation in education, the role of language on stress, how smartphones and virtual communication platforms (e.g., Zoom) could change learning, and many other topics relevant to CS education and learning.

    • 55 Nicki Washington is Unapologetically Dope

      • In this interview with Nicki Washington, we discuss the importance of cultural competency, expanding beyond “diversity” by focusing on creating inclusive and equitable environments, learning from people and scholarship outside of the field, lessons learned working with CS educators across the country, lessons learned while teaching during a pandemic, focusing on the humanity in computer science education, and much more. If you haven’t listened to it yet, check out the unpacking scholarship episode that unpacks one of Nicki’s papers.

    • 57 Amplifying VOICES for Social Justice with Lien Diaz

      • In this interview with Lien Diez, we discuss Lien’s work with Georgia Tech’s Constellations Center for Equity in Computing, what CS educators can do to learn more about and incorporate anti-racist practices, the importance of encouraging and developing both students and teachers as leaders, the shifts and pivots in education as a result of COVID, and much more. After listening to this episode, make sure to check out Lien’s podcast, Voices of Innovative Compassionate Experts in Society (VOICES).

    • 59 dailySTEM with Chris Woods

      • In this week’s interview with Chris Woods (dailySTEM), we discuss the importance of contextualizing STEM through everyday connections, leveraging student interests, blurring boundaries between subject areas, the affordances and constraints of the acronym STEM, Chris’ new book Daily STEM: How to Create a STEM Culture in your Classrooms & Communities, continuing to learn by asking questions, and much more.

    • 61 Designing Curricula at Scale with GT Wrobel

      • In this interview with GT Wrobel, we discuss the importance of understanding your “why” behind pedagogical approaches and curriculum design, the internal tensions that arise when designing curriculum used by people around the world, the potential for standards and assessment to be a form of oppression, how feedback impacts the evolution of a curriculum, considerations when designing culturally relevant curricula that is used around the world, aligning curriculum development with professional development, the importance of taking a break to prevent burnout, where we hope the field goes in the next few years, and much more.

    • 63 Suggestions and Considerations for District-wide Implementation with Abby Funabiki

      • In this interview with Abby Funabiki, we discuss the differences between for-profit and nonprofit CS education organizations, the importance and ability for nonprofits to collaborate with others, CS as the new digital divide, how to get started with CS implementation with limited or no extra funding, suggestions and considerations for district-wide implementation, and much more.

    • 65 CS for All Teachers with Melissa Rasberry

      • In this interview with Melissa Rasberry, we discuss making educational lemonade out of lemons, using technology to collaborate in virtual learning communities, how people are learning differently through online communities, CS for All Teachers, suggestions for using different social media platforms to connect with other educators, and much more.

    • 67 Exploring Computer Science with Joanna Goode

      • In this interview with Joanna Goode, we discuss corporate influence through neoliberal practices in CS education, reflecting on engaging all students in CS programs, considerations around equity and inclusion in CS education, layers of curriculum design and implementation, discussing and problematizing integration, influences of policy and administrative support (or the lack of) on CS education, Joanna’s experience with developing Exploring Computer Science, and much more.

    • 69 #CSK8 Visions by Vicky Sedgwick

      • In this interview with Vicky Sedgwick, we discuss Vicky’s journey into CS education, how Vicky’s pedagogy has changed in virtual environments, advice for designing learning experiences in CS, the importance of integrating CS in other subject areas, recommendations for improving equity and inclusion, building online communities in an age where people are questioning the value of social media, and much more.

    • 71 Considering Leisure in Education with Roger Mantie

      • In this interview with Roger Mantie, we discuss the importance of leisure for self preservation, problematize the single focus of education for workforce readiness, discuss the importance of focusing on happiness and wellbeing, explore discourse in education and around leisure, and much more.

    • 73 Vulnerability, Reflection, and CS Education with Amy Ko

      • In this interview with Amy Ko, we discuss the importance of mentorship in education, learning what not to do with teaching, the positive results of being vulnerable, understanding and exploring the limitations and consequences of CS, problematizing grades in education, practicing teaching through mental simulations, the importance of engaging in the CS community, and much more.

    • 77 Healthy Boundaries with Siobahn Grady

      • In this interview with Siobahn Grady, we discuss the importance of self care and healthy boundaries, the impact of education, misconceptions and problematic assumptions people make with HBCUs, misconceptions and misunderstandings of being a professor in CS, lessons learned using machine learning to identify authorship of tweets, exploring the implications of social media and technology with students, the intersections of arts and CS, improving equity and inclusion in computing through action, and much more.

    • 80 Individualized Learning Without Grades with Sofía De Jesús

    • 82 Lessons Learned From CSTA Chapters Across the United States with Jason Bohrer

      • In this interview with Jason Bohrer, we discuss lessons learned coming into computer science education from another subject area, lessons learned working with CSTA chapters across the country (and during a pandemic), how CSTA has impacted the field and continues to evolve over time, how Jason continued to learn about CS without getting burned out, considering equity and inclusion when recruiting for CS education, CSTA’s new CS Teacher Standards, and much more.

    • 84 The Rise of CS Across the Pond with Phil Bagge

      • In this interview with Phil Bagge, we discuss the rise of CS in UK curricula, the evolution of Phil’s pedagogical approach, how time constraints impact pedagogical approaches, not letting the loudest voices drive instruction, how research informs Phil’s approach for working with teachers new to CS, how to emphasize student agency in teacher professional development, and much more.

    • 86 Computing Education Research with Mark Guzdial

      • In this interview with Mark Guzdial, we discuss the similarities and differences between constructionism and constructivism, think through when to situate and apply learning, discuss contextualized learning, creating multiple pathways for exploring computer science, problematizing subservient relationships with integrated curricula or courses, task-specific and domain-specific languages, using multiple learning theories through a multiperspectivalist approach, changes to public policy that Mark would make to help out CS educators and the field, and much more.

    • 88 Connecting with and Listening to Students with Dominick Sanders

      • In this interview with Dominick Sanders, we discuss the importance of connecting with and listening to students, the impact of being a positive role model for kids, considering equity for individuals and across the entire state of South Carolina, what Dominick learned through their experience with Xposure STEM, Dominick’s plan for improving CS in South Carolina, Dominick’s experience with CSTA’s Equity Fellowship, how Dominick continues to learn and grow as a CS educator, thinking through intersectionality in relation to representation, and so much more.

    • 90 Making Meaningful Connections with Jean Ryoo

      • In this interview with Jean Ryoo, we discuss equity as an evolving idea, what an ideal CS class looks like, collaborating and learning through research-practitioner partnerships (RPPs), the importance of examining our own biases, the importance of community, working through burnout/depression/anxiety, helping students through depression and suicidal ideation, the problems with whitewashing in education, and so much more.

    • 92 Lessons Learned from (In)Formal CS Education with Grant Smith

      • In this interview with Grant Smith, we discuss the importance of continuing to learn from other educators, what informal and formal learning spaces can learn from each other, how COVID has impacted Grant’s teaching philosophy, our preferences for in-person or virtual professional development and classroom instruction, lessons learned from entrepreneurial adventures in CS education, learning by jumping in and trying new things, heuristic-based learning, and so much more.

    • 95 Exploring (Dis)Ability and Connecting with the Arts with Jesse Rathgeber

      • In this interview with Jesse Rathgeber, we discuss what educators should know about (dis)ability culture and research, person-first language vs identity-first language, suggestions for combating ableism through anti-ableist practices, how the arts and CS can come together and learn from each other (great for sharing with arts educators who might be interested in CS), and much more.

    • All other episodes

  • Find other CS educators and resources by using the #CSK8 hashtag on Twitter

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