Recommendations for Preventing Burnout in Education (Part 3)

Building off the previous episode on depression, suicide, and CS education, this episode is a supercut of guests responding to how they take care of themselves and stave off burnout. If you have not done so yet, I highly recommend listening to last year’s supercut on the same topic or the episode from two years ago to hear perspectives from other guests.

  • Welcome back to another episode of the

    csk8 podcast my name is jared o'leary

    each week of this podcast is usually an

    interview with a guest or multiple

    guests or a solo episode where i unpack

    scholarship in relation to computer

    science education the last couple of

    years the week after

    national suicide prevention week i've

    shared a super cut of guests responding

    to a question around how to prevent

    burnout i'm sharing this because i fully

    understand how difficult it is to be an

    education or an educator and so i want

    to share ideas from

    many of the wonderful guests that we've

    had on the show so that way you too can

    hopefully learn how to prevent burnout

    and hopefully stay in the field because

    if you listen to the episode that i

    released a couple weeks ago where i kind

    of talk about some of my concerns about

    the future of the field i'm genuinely

    concerned so i hope this episode is

    helpful for you and know that in the

    show notes at jaredowlery.com you'll

    find links to each one of these episodes

    so that way you can actually listen to

    the full episode as well as a bunch of

    computer science education resources and

    then even a bunch of gaming and drumming

    stuff if you're into that too while

    you're there you'll notice that this

    podcast is powered by boot up

    professional development which is the

    non-profit that i work for check out

    boot up pd.org if you want to see the

    free curriculum that i create or learn

    more about the paid professional

    development alright so the first clip

    that we're going to listen to is from

    laura desenza this is from episode 102.

    definitely making sure i take time to do

    my passions as well so on top of

    teaching i'm also a high school

    basketball and volleyball coach so

    having that time that's almost scheduled

    from august all the way through march

    that's you know i've got at least two

    and a half hours a day in the gym with

    the high school kids and playing with

    them and coaching them and focusing on

    that and then i'm a crafter too so

    making sure you know i know maybe i'm

    doing this project for the kids but

    let's have some fun and do it for myself

    so taking that time away but also

    knowing that i am prepared we've been

    through worse it's going to be okay so

    let's just see what we've done and what

    we can make better or adjust for

    whatever situation we're in so you know

    we're in person full time great you know

    i can use the 3d printer that's in my

    classroom or i can use you know the

    doodle pens you know we're remote now

    well maybe we get cardboard and we try

    to make our own 3d structure out of it

    it's going to be okay the kids are still

    learning the concepts and the ideas i

    want them to learn it's just in a

    different form right now the next clip

    is from leanne delizer this is from

    episode 104 it helps to be an internal

    optimist i joke that i'm a glass

    recorder full kind of girl i often

    surprise taxi drivers when i got off of

    airplanes because they're expecting like

    grumpy travel passenger and i'm like

    it's a great day and they're like what

    why huh and i'm like it is highly

    improbable that any day will be the

    worst day of real life

    you only get one of those but you get a

    whole lot of dates and so every day

    holds promise and while i recognize that

    in the current place i am in my life

    there's a lot of privilege to support

    that growing up i was a foster child for

    a short while and that has really

    grounded in me to take the things around

    me that are good the progress that we

    make every day and value it that doesn't

    mean you don't strive harder to keep

    making change but it does mean you value

    the small things and the small wins

    along the way and i think that is

    bored of who i am as an individual and i

    also need to credit a little bit of my

    house crew so for those of you who know

    me on social media you may have seen at

    the last 60 and the last csta

    i found places where i could go with my

    israel and diane levitt were both not

    only academic colleagues but good

    friends and we

    literally retreated to a house

    together because when you're listening

    in isolation to that stew of community

    that you've talked about those negative

    messages when you don't have anybody

    around you to unpack them can be

    dangerous and so how do we find

    not only our

    allies but also the folks that you can

    be vulnerable with how do you say like i

    didn't understand that to someone who's

    not going to judge you for it talk

    through it be able to say like i don't

    have the right language around this yet

    but i am thinking about this from this

    way over the last year i've developed a

    lot of worked really hard to try and

    develop improvement in my own language

    about how i

    refer to black indigenous and hispanic

    people how to be

    more

    thoughtful in the way that i engage

    other audiences and people whose life

    experiences is different from my own i'm

    not there yet i'm still working on it

    but it's really really helpful to me to

    have someone who i trust where i can try

    things and they'll tell me like no you

    don't want to go that's not right

    and at the same time to wander in that

    space together to think through like

    what are our goals for the world and how

    do we get there or maybe that's not the

    right particular compass direction

    anymore and we have to go one degree to

    the left but having those sounding

    boards who understand enough about your

    professional domain not just your

    personal one that you can live in that

    camaraderie is really important the next

    clip that we're gonna listen to is from

    mitch resnick this is from episode 106.

    when i do it i invest a lot of my life

    in my work so i could be someone who

    people would see could get burned out i

    think there are a few ways of trying to

    avoid it i do you know have some other

    activities i enjoy running in the

    morning i run most mornings i play

    tennis with a good friend once a week

    but there are other outlets but maybe

    even more important there are a lot of

    satisfaction i get from when i see the

    impact that the work is having with

    young people around the world like just

    yesterday a close colleague sent me an

    email that they received from someone

    who was talking about that they visited

    their brother they spent time with their

    nephew and then the 11 year old nephew

    who would learn scratch this was a

    nephew that had lots of challenges

    wasn't always successful in you know

    sort of the traditional

    academic channels but you've really

    become excited about scratch and start

    to see themselves in a new way and it

    opened up them seeing themselves and the

    world in a different way so when i hear

    stories like that that helps prevent the

    burnout did i just see the meaning that

    it has in young people's lives now

    here's a clip from episode 108 which is

    an interview with george valenzuela what

    i do is i loop back the things that i

    enjoy doing but i don't have time to do

    and for me it's hiking it's sightseeing

    one that i do do a lot is eating out i'm

    a big foodie right stuff like that what

    i do is i make time for those things

    right now on the weekends friday and

    saturday my wife and my two children we

    map out something that we want to do in

    nature it could be canoeing it could be

    sailing row boating whatever or it could

    be hiking and then we find a restaurant

    something that we've never tried before

    and so we do that like on a saturday on

    a sunday it could be a pool day it could

    be a game day a movie day but the whole

    point is to do something that you enjoy

    doing and that's how you restore your

    emotional health and your burnout and

    your fatigue you have to do something

    where your mind is no longer engaged in

    that workflow and i think if you do that

    on a consistent basis

    like for me it's the weekends and it's

    after 9 30 at night you know and at 9 30

    at night it might sound funny to you or

    to someone listening but i like to watch

    things that make me laugh like the

    golden girls i mean it's true the

    jeffersons

    martin shows that i like humor that i

    like and it takes my mind off the

    workflow and the thing that i've

    realized is that it could be the

    resurrection work is going to be there

    it's not going away

    and so there's nothing wrong in you know

    disconnecting for your own mental health

    yeah that definitely resonates that's

    something that i had to learn to do and

    value and it wasn't really until

    a therapist pointed out like hey you

    don't you're not making time for

    yourself all you're doing is working

    yeah and so one thing like i was in

    chicago last week and i did a gig there

    actually and

    my wife said you've done i don't know

    what it's been man it's been

    since april 2020 i have been basically

    every week doing pt and just basically

    every week and she said to me you have

    not been on a real vacation a long time

    so let's take two three days since

    chicago let's do something fun and no

    work and so that was hard for me it was

    very hard for me because i have a lot

    going on and so

    like i sat down and i wrote down so what

    do i want to do in chicago on my bucket

    list is to visit michael jordan statue

    and so we put that on the list she

    wanted to do a boat ride on the

    riverwalk she wanted to go to the

    highest

    building i think it was a sears building

    and to look down and see the whole you

    know city and so we did that for three

    full days in a lot of restaurants and

    i realized that i need something like

    this two three times a year you know not

    for an entire week or two weeks

    maybe five six days if i can afford it

    or if i have time but yeah like you need

    something like that or you can't really

    restore or heal emotionally or you know

    mentally from all that's going on yeah

    that definitely resonates i house sat

    from my parents like for a week maybe a

    month ago and just getting out of the

    summer heat in phoenix and being able to

    get up into the forest area because like

    their backyard backs up to the forest

    like it was wonderful just to disconnect

    for that week need to do that more yeah

    like there's a power in nature you know

    nature has amazing restoring

    qualities and so i think you just have

    to know

    what you actually need i think john

    spencer has to for ours you know

    relaxation

    restoration

    i forgot the other two but you just have

    to figure out what do you need for your

    own healing whatever that is you know

    physical mental spiritual and make time

    for that and if you don't you will

    regret it eventually and the people

    around you will probably not be in your

    life up forever if you don't do that all

    right so next up we have an interview

    with ashley waring who's a co-worker at

    boot up this is from episode 110. the

    community is huge i mean

    staying around people that are

    passionate about the same thing that you

    are is huge because then when your

    passion is kind of like

    there's maybe is the opposite and they

    can pull you back up again so i think

    you know having people that share the

    same jam as you is important i also

    think it's huge like for me i

    love computer science i also love nature

    so like getting away from screens and

    putting my eyeballs on

    things that are not made out of metal or

    or plastic and digital that's been huge

    for me as far as avoiding burnout i also

    feel like trying to find something

    different or new

    fun to investigate i remember a couple

    years ago i was kind of like

    i mean i've never been like no about

    computer science but i was just telling

    eh i'm not feeling the huge gung-ho

    passion that i was feeling and i

    discovered a new

    accessibility tool for students who are

    visually impaired

    to be able to experience colors and that

    kind of sparked my interest again you

    know so just finding things that are

    interesting but also allowing yourself

    to take a freaking break yeah get off

    twitter for a month or

    however long you know like i mean

    sometimes it's okay to just walk away

    and it's not an easy thing to come

    across especially because i feel like in

    our society productivity is you know

    godly almost and

    breast is

    revolutionary you know and so finding

    that balance i think is important yeah

    i'm still working on that yeah

    it's a process

    all right so next up is episode 112 and

    this is an interview with khalia

    braswell honestly the fact that phd

    school

    the fact that grad school is

    there's a lot of flexibility in it has

    worked in my favor but each semester i

    have to figure out like what works for

    me it literally changes each semester so

    semesters where i have two courses and

    then i'm doing research those are much

    lighter and i feel like i can breathe

    and then the semesters where i have

    three courses that's when it gets really

    crazy i really had to start saying no to

    stuff like i was already saying no but i

    had to like double down on though yeah

    the pandemic helped and hurt me i think

    like i feel like i missed out on those

    experiences where you can go to

    conferences and meet new people learn

    new things because i don't know about

    you but i got conference burnout really

    quickly so i was like i don't even want

    to go to the conference if it's virtual

    anymore again i mentioned sigzi right

    and how before phd i was able to meet so

    many people and learn like i literally

    used to leave conferences like with all

    of these ideas well now i'm siloed

    because i'm at home you know hit or miss

    with going to the virtual conferences

    that was a myth but on the plus side

    like my classes at temple for whatever

    reason are from 5 30 until 8 p.m every

    single class there's no option for a

    daytime class in either of my programs i

    think temple designed it that way for

    folks who work yep and so imagine trying

    to like be a responsible human and wake

    up at 7 or 8 a.m get your day started

    but then at 5 30 when you're ready to

    like wind down you actually have to be

    on zoom and be alert or be in class and

    be alert until 8 pm when i first got to

    temple

    i literally like i was i'm not a morning

    person but at that time in that season

    of my life i was a morning person i

    would get up and i would go work out so

    i was on campus by nine and i had worked

    out shower eating breakfast by nine and

    then by eight i'm like oh man this is

    tough so then by friday i'm like oh man

    i have no energy to give to anybody and

    so it's been trial and error for me but

    and i was like this before but i don't

    have email apps on my phone anymore

    that's actually new for me but i

    previously didn't have notifications so

    that helps with the burnout because i'm

    not constantly like worried about emails

    i don't check my email until after i've

    had breakfast and my tea for the day and

    maybe even worked out so i might not get

    to my email until 10 or 11 a.m that has

    been helpful because i realized when i

    was checking email it would kind of ruin

    my morning if i'm like trying to respond

    to something that i wasn't anticipating

    and i'm not in the headspace therapy has

    been helpful because my therapist kind

    of calls me out whenever i slack away

    from these practices i got to make sure

    i work out so costs a lot of money but i

    bought a peloton bike i proved to myself

    that i would use it first though i got a

    cheaper bike

    and then i was like okay i'm going to

    take the plunge i got to get the bike

    and so i you know try to like reach out

    to folks and say hey can you do this

    right like i wrote before our

    conversation today i was like okay i

    have to get this in now or it's not

    going to happen and

    it's an unlearning experience but i've

    tried to get much better at resting and

    truly resting and

    i don't know when it was it might have

    been last year where i realized sleep

    and resting are two separate things i

    think people

    miss that because i was like man i need

    to get some rest and they're like oh

    you're not sleeping well and i was like

    that's not what i said i was like nah i

    sleep great you know resting means that

    i am not thinking about anything like

    you know like i'm like laying on the

    couch watching tv like it's kind of

    being aimless with my body and my brain

    literally to rest and i think a lot of

    people like me who are overachievers

    feel guilty when you're resting it's

    like i should be doing something i have

    let that go

    that's nice it's hard though because

    of the systems that exist around us like

    capitalism being one you know you feel

    like you should be producing and putting

    out output but i even think that

    mentality helped me step away from

    intech because i started this

    organization you know ego would keep me

    here but i've worn a lot of hats and

    i've burned out and i know what that

    feels like and i don't like it and so

    i'm in a place in my life where i'm like

    even work on my therapist actually what

    does 80 kalia look like because i give

    it's killing me so like what does 80

    look like what does it look like if i do

    one thing so at the top of the year i'll

    just be a phd student and i'm excited

    about it so yeah there's so much good

    advice in there i like your idea of like

    kind of viewing like the semester almost

    as like a season like oh well this is a

    lighter season or a heavier season in

    terms of like load and whatnot but also

    just keeping the apps off the phone like

    i don't get notifications and like that

    makes it easier i try and avoid email

    until like 10 or 11 o'clock and like

    then i'll check it one more time at the

    end of the day like before i'm done

    before i start to rest for the day and

    yeah because you literally can feel your

    anxiety oh yeah like going up when

    you're like checking the stuff yep in a

    time where you shouldn't be i don't even

    sleep with my phone in my bedroom

    anymore i charge it in the kitchen or on

    my desk and when i'm ready for bed i

    walk away from it and i'll figure it out

    in the morning and my family hates that

    though

    like what if something happens i'm like

    well call the police don't call me

    yeah i

    and your comments about rest like i

    engage in a process called pomodoro so

    like the way i do it is like 50 minutes

    of work and then a 10-minute break so

    like in our chunks but what i realized

    because i'm also very much like i need

    to be working and progressing or

    evolving and whatever like those 10

    minute breaks were like oh i'm going to

    practice drums for 10 minutes or oh i'm

    going to work on this thing and improve

    this thing for 10 minutes but it's not

    work and then i realized no i need to

    just take those 10 minutes and just do

    some yoga like and do that throughout

    the day and just shut my brain down

    because it's better for me to rest and

    the next clip is from episode 114 this

    is with james fester there are a couple

    of ones that i think are really

    important and i think that whether or

    not you're if you're a teacher in the

    classroom that's a really tough reality

    you're a teacher who is teaching

    remotely from home that's also brings

    its own difficulties as well and so

    and a lot of what i'm going to share i'm

    pretty sure

    other people would share as well but one

    thing that i would definitely say is

    this is something that i hear all the

    time from the mental health provider

    that i work with which has been great is

    making sure that you're taking time for

    yourself that means after a certain and

    it's so hard to do totally get it i

    totally understand in a world where we

    are like connected by the hip to devices

    where people expect instantaneous

    replies or or you have a certain amount

    of hours to get back to me before x y

    and z

    it can be very difficult but i think

    it's important to draw some lines one

    thing that's really important for me is

    i work from home so literally i never

    leave my working environment and that

    can be really really difficult sometimes

    oh somebody just emailed me i could just

    sneak into the other room really quickly

    even though it's dinner time and i

    really should be present for my family

    it's never going to end unless you draw

    a line

    and you're the only one that can hold

    that line so that's the first thing i

    would say is you got to set aside time

    for what's good for you or what you need

    to do if it's family that expect you to

    be present after a day work great if

    it's that you just really need time to

    decompress read a book play a video game

    you know go on a hike and outside

    whatever it is you need to make sure

    you're doing that because eventually if

    you don't it will impact the work that

    you do and it won't matter how much time

    you spend doing the work you will get

    worse and worse and the quality will go

    down we know that it's the same thing

    that i would say to students too go home

    and get a good night's sleep don't watch

    netflix until 2am because you're going

    to come in tired and you will not have

    actually given your body what it needs

    the other thing that i would say

    strategy wise and it's i kind of talked

    a little bit more about it but i watched

    this there's a great ted talk recently

    it was a ted talk that was given by a

    soccer referee

    and he gave this really great ted talk

    where he talked about a very simple way

    to kind of

    de-stress and detach yourself

    who better than a soccer referee to

    teach us how not to take things

    personally or how to not be affected by

    outside stressors right like it seemed

    like the perfect way and so what he said

    was that he basically says to himself

    when somebody comes at him hot when he

    encounters a situation that's very

    stressful when he feels himself getting

    really amped up or sad or whatever it is

    and the first question i want to ask is

    this really about me is it something

    else affecting you is it something else

    going on is it really something that i

    have done or am i just kind of inserting

    myself into your stress and assuming

    that i am the reason that can be really

    bad then the second thing he says is if

    you can't figure that out he says well

    maybe this is about me meaning maybe he

    is internalizing it he is interpreting

    it as now i've done something wrong it's

    both sides of the coin where he first

    has to figure out is this person coming

    at me because of their thing or am i

    feeling like this person is coming at me

    because of my thing it was really kind

    of awesome but it seems really

    simplistic but i really came away

    thinking to myself like this is really a

    great thinking tool that i should be

    using every single time i'm feeling

    amped up about something is this about

    some person's issues or am i putting

    this on myself and it has nothing to do

    with me yeah i like that i'll definitely

    include a link to it and the first part

    that you had said of like the value in

    disconnecting and like not getting

    notifications and whatnot i imagine

    there might be some cs educators like

    yeah but i'm in cs education it's really

    hard to do that we have to be connected

    blah blah i recommend they check out

    works by like cal newport so like deep

    work he also had a book called digital

    minimalism and then a more recent book

    called world without email he is a cs

    professor i believe at georgetown

    university and he's constantly preaching

    like hey you don't need social media hey

    you don't need phone notifications you

    don't need to check your email like

    every 10 minutes et cetera so people can

    go there to dive a little bit deeper

    into that that's like an awesome

    resource all right so next up we're

    going to hear from arya chernik this is

    from episode 116. i actually find great

    beauty and energy

    in that idea of becoming it's funny

    because i actually had a professor in

    grad school and when we were talking

    about derrida he said there are two

    kinds of people in the world you know

    those for whom deconstruction kind of

    instills great anxiety and those for

    whom it kind of

    inspires

    excitement great deep passion and

    excitement and yes it's extremely

    difficult and you know logistically it's

    difficult and it's difficult in terms of

    kind of scaffolding learning but when i

    see what students create and when i hear

    what students say and reflections about

    their learning and what they will carry

    forward with them that is deeply

    energizing to me those are my happiest

    moments

    as an educator

    so

    in terms of kind of maintaining

    health and well-being certainly digging

    into those moments and those feelings my

    mom

    used to say this is a long time ago one

    time i called her i used to have a long

    drive from teaching and so i often call

    her from the car and one day we were

    talking and i was tired and she said

    you know even when you're tired even

    after you've had a long day you always

    sound so happy after you teach and like

    that stayed with me all these years

    because i am i'm happy when i teach and

    then there's running and

    reading finding a book that i can't wait

    to get back to at the end of the evening

    that's hugely restorative for me being

    at the ocean

    so there are certainly

    things that i do to try to maintain

    balance and next is a clip from episode

    me personally because i had just left

    academia so for me doing the research

    and the teaching in my mind being more

    focused on the research i feel like and

    some academics may understand this but

    i left academia right because i was

    working all the time interestingly

    enough i was in a meeting this weekend a

    virtual meeting and there were

    physicians in the meeting and one

    physician was like

    explaining how someone on elsewhat works

    and he said that this person works like

    an academic because they're working all

    weekend we're getting emails on the

    weekend we're getting emails in the

    evening and there's just no stopping and

    you know they wanted to care for this

    person to make sure this person was

    taking time off and recouping and

    restoring themselves so

    for me leaving academia has been

    good for me personally and it's allowing

    me the opportunity to do research and

    i'm trying very hard to have times that

    i work in times that i don't work and if

    i do work odd hours i'm you know

    scheduling messages so they go out at

    normal work time so somebody else

    doesn't have to feel like they have to

    respond at eight o'clock at night or on

    the weekend there's a lot to do

    and i try to focus on this

    aspect that we're just one tiny spoken a

    wheel a very very very huge wheel and

    you know if i can help other people on

    that same wheel do the work that they're

    trying to do and make that high quality

    then you know hopefully it's about

    sharing the opportunity to

    make things better for this next

    generation that's coming up yeah i

    appreciate that answer having gone to

    school with and been the kind of person

    who never stops working like i have

    learned the value of setting aside a

    time to rest and that i had to learn the

    hard way so for anyone else who is also

    that kind of individual i do recommend

    taking a break like even if it's like at

    just shut my brain down from working on

    this thing and focus on family or

    whatever it makes life a lot better yeah

    exactly so we've also taken up hiking

    during the pandemic one of the ways that

    we've been trying to my husband and i

    have been trying to

    get exercise while also

    not being able to go to the gym anymore

    is or not going to the gym i guess it is

    open now but just to go out and enjoy

    nature and go hiking take the dogs all

    that good stuff yeah being in phoenix we

    actually have quite a bit of hiking

    opportunities around it's it's pretty

    nice so if anyone has mountains nearby

    or hills i highly recommend hiking as

    well

    yeah definitely and next we have a

    conversation with sarah lev this is from

    episode 122 and we actually talk about a

    whole lot more like meditation and yoga

    as well as general mindfulness and

    wellness so make sure you check out the

    rest of the episode for even more well

    it was really about like having my own

    designated space for my classroom which

    was like basically i have a small house

    in the hallway at a desk closing my

    laptop and like getting outside i would

    go outside for lunches i would take my

    son on bike rides during the lunch

    trying to do something different to sort

    of make that space different for myself

    you know i saw a funny video that was

    like somebody like they're sitting on

    their couch end of the work day they

    close their laptop and they move over a

    foot and they open their laptop and

    they're like it's the weekend you know

    so

    it's but it's kind of like that was kind

    of like having a designated space i

    think to help but also like i was saying

    my mornings

    of listening to a positive podcast doing

    the dishes exercising outside like all

    of those things to mark beginning of

    work pre-work and then post-work i also

    am lucky i live in los angeles we live

    near the ocean we can drive to the beach

    and see the beach and that was really

    really helpful being outside really

    helps me yeah you joke about moving over

    a foot like that

    it actually sounds like one of the

    things that i did to separate my

    like work time from my leisure time on

    the same device like so right now i have

    a monitor directly in front of me and

    then one angled to my right but what i

    would do when i was switching to leisure

    is i would change that orientation so

    now it's on the left of that angled

    monitor

    and like that little thing it made a

    huge difference it was like okay no i'm

    in leisure time i'm not in work time

    right now even though it's all the same

    hardware i'm using

    yeah that's great the other thing i

    think i heard you know i would always

    like get dressed and like put shoes on

    right like i think something i heard

    that not everybody did right like i

    would get dressed as if i was going to

    work and then after work it would be

    like okay my shoes are off and now i'm

    you know in my sweats or whatever so i

    think i didn't thought about that but i

    think that was another thing that i did

    that helped me feel like i was working

    and not working next up we have from

    episode 124 an interview with kimberly

    scott you know it's funny and i read

    your question like you know what do you

    do in order to

    avoid burning at first i was like oh

    does he want me to talk about you know

    working out or you know but then to me

    that's what so many of us do you know to

    try to balance ourselves i mean i have i

    think pretty

    interesting pastimes but at least most

    people say like i do aerial yoga my wife

    does yeah we have an aerial yoga rig

    like literally underneath me

    oh my goodness i know whose house i'm

    visiting

    oh i love aerial yoga because you know

    it engages my body in ways that is a

    different rhythm than my normal sitting

    in a chair and being in a meeting but i

    think along those same lines i think

    about how to engage my mind and my

    spirit and i return to art so i become

    also one of my big hobbies at least now

    is photography and you think about it

    you know photography there is a lot of

    computational thinking and so

    some of my side gigs are

    photo shoots i'm going on a photo shoot

    tomorrow to do wild horses my

    professional life still bleeds into that

    because i'm conscious about not so much

    the horses but when i'm photographing

    people who's in the shot how are we

    representing their being you know let me

    engage them in the process so is this

    really the story you want told in this

    way here are my ideas but lord knows my

    ideas may not be congruent to what you

    want so

    that's the only thing i wanted to say

    because i was chuckling when i was

    thinking about how to address that but i

    think it still reflects my professional

    self even though it's a different rhythm

    and the following clip is from episode

    i've balanced or i've reached kind of

    like optimal boundary setting something

    changes that resets and then i have to

    go back and do it again so

    i started this new job at bank street

    which has been exhilarating and really

    exciting but also really challenging

    anytime you teach something new for the

    first time just getting your head around

    the course the content the curriculum

    like the directions that you're going

    it's overwhelming so it's like wait how

    am i living my first year teaching again

    but i'm not living my first year

    teaching again i think i have many more

    boundaries from that time but now i do

    actually have a separate space i'm lucky

    and not having the situation that you

    mentioned like i can come to an office i

    can work here and then i can go home and

    sort of make a mental separation between

    those two locations can help and then

    just knowing like i try to plan

    activities and things that are outside

    so that i purposely give myself a time

    to quit and you know those help having

    people accountability partners like you

    know in my family or my boyfriend to say

    did you eat today like kind of those

    reminders was like you're in this grind

    but you're not too firmly in it and it's

    really tough but i think it's also that

    feeling of like i will come out the

    other side of this year and then

    hopefully come away with even more

    strategies for that balance in the next

    year when things are a little bit more

    stable right the next clip is from

    episode 129 with addison littleholt

    luckily very luckily the content that i

    focus on in my classroom it's

    continually changing because of what cs

    is things like ai and machine learning

    but i'm covering that i was covering

    this a few years ago it's different now

    and i've expanded that unit to include

    things like unintended bias in

    artificial intelligence and talking

    about

    why why does that exist and i have the

    students create their own biased models

    by accident and then show them how why

    they did that and then fix it and they

    all fix it immediately they know exactly

    how to do it they get somebody else in

    take a new picture

    and what i think keeps me from burning

    out is seeing those moments of like whoa

    aha moments beyond like

    but

    i

    also really like

    stuff that i teach i'm really they

    always say like oh passionate teacher i

    just find the content that i cover to be

    fun it's fun for me to do and same with

    music i love playing music and

    i have fun playing music i might be able

    to teach it to be honest but i wouldn't

    keep doing it in my off time if i didn't

    truly enjoy the stuff that i do in the

    classroom so i think that keeps me from

    burning out i'm lucky there's no doubt

    about it i'm very lucky to be able to

    say that and the next clip is from

    episode 131 this is from ruth farmer

    it's really hard i mean the burnout is

    real one thing though is i just get so

    much energy from

    seeing the successes of the students and

    seeing the notes come back to us and you

    know we recently helped one of our

    grantees we had given her a grant to

    help her finish college she graduated

    and we helped her negotiate her first

    job offer because low-income students

    can't turn to their parent or their

    family member and say like is this a

    good offer at microsoft or amazon and so

    we helped the student negotiate her

    starting salary from seventy five

    thousand to a hundred and four thousand

    dollars nice she is going to make

    roughly 400 000

    more over the next decade than she would

    have and it's like life-changing for her

    to start at that level and

    it positions her as having a high value

    because if you get paid less in your

    first job than your peers you're

    perceived to be worth less because you

    cost less and so negotiating that first

    job is one of the most important things

    you can do and how you launch into the

    field so those types of wins you know

    are happening pretty frequently for us

    these days so our model is we're going

    to invest in these students they're

    going to graduate and they're going to

    get great jobs and they're going to come

    back as a volunteer and ultimately as an

    investor later we had our first student

    come back to reinvest in the fund 10

    months after we started we funded her in

    february of 2020 she graduated in june

    she came back and invested in august and

    continues

    to support us and so it's like this

    virtuous circle we call it you know

    investment engagement reinvestment that

    is going to power this long term and

    yeah i'm really excited about that piece

    of the model because we have these

    alumni relationships with the students

    so we find out like where are you

    working and we congratulate them when

    they graduate and they come back and

    support other students like them next up

    we have a clip from an interview with

    maya israel this is from episode 133

    i'll start by saying i feel like this is

    privileged work to be able to

    work in academia and ask the questions

    that i think are really important and

    engage with folks who also find those

    questions important to me it just feels

    like a privilege to get to do this kind

    of work at the same time like you said

    it's a whole lot of privileged work so

    it's a lot of work and so i feel like

    you have to protect your time and you

    have to say no sometimes which is

    difficult to do especially in education

    when you're committed to systems change

    and students with disabilities and so i

    don't know that i have a great answer

    for it except for that i try to balance

    and i don't always do a very good job of

    it but you know there are a few things

    i'm learning from my colleagues like i

    try really hard to not have meetings on

    wednesdays even though we're speaking on

    a wednesday

    you know i was able to spend this

    morning just doing work and not having a

    ton of meetings and so i was able to

    actually like sit in the work and

    sometimes what ends up happening is that

    we're so busy that we don't actually get

    to do the work or just running from

    meeting to meeting and so carving out

    those times and protecting those times

    is really important at the same time

    also recognizing that there is life

    outside of work is also really important

    and so what i try to do is you know make

    sure that my entire identity isn't tied

    to being a researcher faculty member so

    i read a lot of fiction things that have

    nothing to do with computer science you

    know i try to get outside you know all

    of those things that we know we have to

    do to kind of maintain that balance it

    depends on the day and the week how well

    i do with it yeah i also have like a

    deep work

    practice in that i try and schedule

    about two hours at the start of the day

    before i have meetings before i check

    email where i'm just engaged and work on

    something whatever it is that's like a

    big upcoming project and that has been

    very helpful the idea of like having an

    identity outside of work is something

    that i've had to work through with a

    therapist like to try and reconcile that

    and like now

    i'm like sharing my

    music and video game identities much

    more publicly and i've never done that

    before and that is like part of

    a process for me for like reconciling

    all these identities and just being more

    open and be like hey i don't just do

    computer science i also do these other

    things and they're part of what makes me

    who i am yeah there's like an entire

    space on instagram that is filled with

    people who are bookish people and so

    it's like an amazing thing to connect

    with people on something that has

    nothing to do with computer science and

    it's like completely nerdy bookish

    conversations where you're like i just

    read this amazing book who else has read

    it and they're like this is great and

    what a gorgeous book cover and so

    i think it's really healthy to do that

    and it's also good to model that for

    our students too who are coming in and

    they're you know part of the grind and

    they're trying to get through their

    qualifying exams and to publish all the

    papers and to get their cvs ready so

    that they can be competitive and so it's

    really important to recognize that

    that's not the only part of your life

    when you look back on your life nobody

    says i don't think i wish i'd worked

    more

    right so the work's important the work

    is privileged but it's not the only

    thing that makes up your life yeah my

    first therapist had experience working

    in hospice and that was one of the

    things that she had said to me and it

    did not really connect with me

    when i heard it at the time this was

    during undergrad and when i was like

    really getting started with career etc

    and i was so driven but now i'm like oh

    i get what she was saying many years ago

    yeah and those people are amazing folks

    who do that work talk about difficult

    but necessary and absolutely critical

    work for people and their families so

    yeah i could see they definitely need to

    disengage from that because it's the

    emotional toll of that is something next

    up we have a clip from bob irving this

    is from episode 135 that's interesting

    you know because i guess to go back to

    what we were talking about before it's

    not just our students who've gone

    through this global pandemic and are you

    know carrying the scars but those of us

    who i think society realized are front

    line workers now i mean a lot of people

    and i'm sure you've talked to them

    they're scarred they've been caught

    between you know all these conflicting

    demands and political and you know

    whatever you know

    expectations and health fears and all

    that kind of stuff so i'll tell you one

    thing that i don't think

    is really that helpful is to provide

    wellness programs at your school and

    i've seen a lot of that we're just going

    to teach you to do mindfulness and i'm a

    big believer in meditation and

    mindfulness big believer in it but i

    don't think that's the way you handle

    people who are experiencing this kind of

    burnout i really don't yeah i don't know

    what the answer is but again it's a

    systemic thing where

    we have you know the factories already

    set up we're trying to jam people

    through this it's so inhumane in a way

    the whole system is inhumane i mean

    fortunately it's staffed with people

    like you and me that have gone into

    teaching we're not doing it to get rich

    we're doing it because we love learning

    and we love we like kids and we want to

    make the world a better place right

    that's really tricky and especially in

    our field in the cs field how are you

    going to attract teachers when they're

    not going to get two or three times what

    they would get paid teaching plus have

    all of these other you know duties and

    responsibilities and expectations i

    don't know i think it you know requires

    systemic reform i don't know how that's

    going to happen i'll be honest are there

    any other

    approaches or tools like meditation that

    you use to

    help yourself

    yeah there is

    music now that's me that's my personal

    thing but i always tell people i have a

    musical alter ego his name is chicago

    bob and he plays blues guitar you know

    this is my

    passion musically is learning about this

    kind of music and learning to play it so

    during the pandemic i actually set up a

    weekly facebook live event

    where i played music half an hour i

    called it the southern comfort sessions

    or you know

    i said make of it what you will but it

    was a way for me to express that and

    connect with people i mean it's a

    personal note it was

    amazing for me because i was able to

    keep in touch with family and friends

    former students even and you know

    friends that i hadn't seen in decades

    you know

    and we were able to connect through this

    you know live music in the midst of this

    craziness that we're all experiencing

    and i you know i told somebody the other

    day to me that's like oxygen can a

    school facilitate it for their teachers

    to follow passions didn't google used to

    have their 25 percent you spent a

    quarter of your time just following

    something that you're really jazzed

    about now we're talking crazy i'm sure

    but i mean if you really want to see

    people make it and people are leaving

    the profession

    in droves yeah they are burning out and

    this next clip is from episode 139 this

    is with mike cackley for me

    it's just trying to balance i guess we

    know as i said earlier adult scl has

    come before you can teach it to students

    and so one of the things i did this year

    the first time i've taught somewhere

    close by where i live not a half hour

    drive and so i bought a bike and i'm

    riding my bike to school every day and

    that alone makes sure i exercise because

    once i sit on the couch at home i'm

    highly unlikely to get up but i found

    every morning like that physical

    activity gets me going gets me ready for

    the day and then on the way home i have

    that stress for the day i just kind of

    release it in my bike ride and so that's

    been a huge

    savior for me this year if it wasn't for

    my bike ride i think i would lose my

    mind yeah i like that idea i have also

    been trying to

    do that where i will do like strength

    based workout in the morning before i

    start my day and then to kind of close

    off my day and

    use it as a signal of saying hey you're

    done working on this thing i'll do some

    kind of cardio in the afternoon and that

    has been nice having those like start

    and end points for me it's so important

    because it's so easy to neglect it and

    then lots of bad habits for me eating

    habits all those things next up from

    episode 142 is charlotte dungan it's

    hard if you're at that point right now

    you might look around and think it's not

    worth it and it's okay if it isn't it's

    okay to protect yourself to take care of

    yourself i think it's really important

    to take time and break in the summer to

    actually recharge and not do

    every pd offered every you know summer

    camp available to you it's not worth the

    little bit of money to take on that

    second job if you can't come back

    restored and refreshed i think we need

    to do a better job as a society in

    supporting educators and recognizing

    what enormously hard work they have been

    doing over the last several years and

    how many people are leaving the field

    especially really thoughtful

    dedicated educators who just can't do it

    anymore and we can't continue to ask

    teachers to give up their planning

    periods to cover for other teachers

    teaching is the only field i know where

    you have to bring your own whiteboard

    markers to the classroom

    to teach a class and so unless we fix

    things systemically we're not going to

    see

    the best educators you know that they

    may choose to leave because it's too

    hard and i don't think that's wrong

    but if you want to stay the best way to

    do it is

    to continue to fall in love with your

    students and your subject seek out a

    great administration it's okay to go to

    the district next door and and take care

    of yourself maybe that isn't the answer

    i was supposed to say but that's what i

    feel is true is like until we as a

    society take care of educators we're

    going to continue to see turnover yeah

    are there systems that you put into

    place to try and help yourself like i

    really appreciate and that last point

    resonates with me like i was in a

    district where it wasn't great and then

    i moved to a different district and it

    was awesome so like just having a change

    of admin and environments can have a

    profound impact on like my own personal

    well-being and whatnot oh yeah i do

    think it's important to continue

    learning independently i think in the

    classroom though we can also set the bar

    a little bit lower i think formative

    assessment is really useful as a tool to

    take the pressure off for you personally

    as a teacher to have like a quick

    reflection piece where you can see where

    they're at but you don't have to grade

    every darn thing

    i think using some tools like peer

    assessment in assessment of projects and

    having like really clear rubrics that

    students can self-evaluate and having

    like clear

    end points where a project is showcased

    for example and if you meet all the

    requirements of the showcase well then

    you know what your grade is and taking

    some of that pressure off yourself it's

    also okay to set some really clear

    boundaries like i don't work on sundays

    i don't grade i don't i go mountain

    biking that's what i do and

    having those boundaries does not make

    you a bad teacher even if it means you

    didn't finish a certain thing that you

    were supposed to get done

    so focusing on what matters i have the

    like two by two in my brain of like make

    four squares important and urgent and

    really you only need to do the things

    that are important and urgent

    and the other things can wait and that

    as long as your students are in the

    important plus urgent bucket the fact

    that you graded something or didn't this

    weekend probably doesn't matter i really

    appreciate that response i have heard

    similar things than some sessions before

    and people have said that they felt like

    they needed the permission to do that

    they needed to hear that from somebody

    so hopefully there's a listener out

    there who listened to that and it's like

    yes this just resonated really well with

    them try to remain in the work it's what

    you're doing is really important you

    matter to kids you know you're giving

    them opportunities they might not

    otherwise have but you don't have to

    sacrifice yourself and the next clip is

    from episode 144 with carter zenki i

    think there's always like a new project

    to tackle with any course i think

    there's something you can always do to

    improve it and talking with educators i

    always know that they're i want to do

    this i want to do that and i think

    that's an amazing attitude to have and i

    think it's one that sustains people i've

    also tried to

    learn to say no to some things and try

    to focus some stuff i'm not going to

    make that improvement this fall i'm not

    going to do this or that and i'm inside

    going to focus on this other thing

    because it'll more align with these

    values i want the course to have in this

    case and that's both freed up some time

    for me and i think also allow me to

    focus more and make something better

    when i decide to make a change the next

    clip is from episode 146 with ben owens

    i won't kid

    anyone listening that this is indeed

    hard work what i found was by doing

    that hard but different work that was

    more collaborative more inviting more

    inclusive was

    so much more rewarding that it was worth

    it it was worth the time investment and

    if i had worked

    half the number of hours that i did but

    was just sort of going through the

    motions and knowing that it wasn't

    having the impact that would have burned

    me out within my heart because

    what was motivational and this goes back

    again to i think what daniel pique talks

    about is that purpose mastery and

    autonomy i knew that at my school there

    was a clear living mission that provided

    purpose that was consistent and in

    alignment with what i wanted to do to

    make a difference in the world for the

    time that i'm on this planet that was my

    way to channel that and affect it with

    the students i was working with i had

    the ability to master things by knowing

    that i could collaborate with colleagues

    knowing that we could share ideas so

    that we could constantly get better and

    continue to become better teachers and

    master that approach and then i had the

    autonomy that didn't mean that i could

    just close my door and do my own thing

    that i had the collective autonomy where

    again i our ideas mattered what i could

    bring as a passionate educator to my

    colleagues and they could listen and

    they could give me feedback was

    respected so i could leave

    at the end of the day knowing that with

    that purpose mastery and autonomy i'm

    doing good work that is in alignment to

    my core values as a person and i think

    that ultimately is if you were in that

    place which i was fortunate enough to be

    and i would also say i'm pretty

    fortunate enough to be and since i run

    my own apartment nonprofit i'm i guess

    i'm my own boss so i just make sure that

    ethos exists in this community as well

    that you can leave with a smile on your

    face and knowing that you've done good

    work that day now i think as you're

    alluding to you can also take that to

    the extreme and become just insane and

    my wife would probably argue that

    i do that on occasion

    it is imperative that you block time and

    i've i've gotten good at practices like

    just i'm going to block a day and that's

    my day and it's not the weekend it's my

    day where i still may be doing work but

    it's work that i get to dictate i get to

    define i get to sit down and read or

    just do something that's totally

    different and is not dictated by a

    meeting or whatever and then you know

    i'm also shut down at four o'clock every

    day i'm done unless there's a specific

    thing that others expect me to be in for

    whatever reason but i'm pretty stingy

    about what those can be that's the time

    where my wife and i and our dog and cats

    can enjoy being together we can go walk

    in the woods i can go on a run or i can

    do whatever so i think it's having that

    level of discipline to know that you

    know when you're doing work you're going

    to go all in but you're also going to

    ensure that you protect um as well so

    that you're honoring yourself and don't

    treat that as being selfish but treat

    that as part of the entire system to

    stay healthy in all the different ways

    that are necessary yeah i really

    appreciate that response the work that i

    do literally will never end in terms of

    like the series of things that i can

    always work on so like having those firm

    here's when i start working here's when

    i stop working that definitely helps now

    i say that with full recognition of i

    started at 5 a.m this morning because i

    woke up at four and like it's just like

    one of those days where all right it's

    definitely gonna be like a 10 hour day

    but in general i try and do eight to

    four get my eight hours and

    we all have those days but

    yeah i think as long as we

    do it in moderation then uh

    they're honoring self and the final clip

    from episode 149 is with nepean nabuya

    yeah oh it's a daily task for me i'm not

    even going live

    i am having to redefine it every day

    holistically for me is taking care of my

    mind body spirit and soul every day so

    putting my phone on do not disturb at a

    certain time right making sure that i'm

    focusing

    on myself from this time to this time so

    my do not disturb hits

    from 10 p.m to 10 a.m so you cannot get

    in touch with me after 10 p.m at night

    or before 10 a.m the next morning so and

    i could be doing absolutely nothing

    right now that's just me prioritizing

    myself and me setting boundaries because

    social media is addictive right i can

    scroll instagram for hours right that's

    one of my approaches also you know just

    how am i feeding myself throughout the

    day so i'm an engineer i've been an

    engineer almost seven years and

    i can easily get overwhelmed like i am

    always super anxious when i'm doing like

    code changes or i'm on call when we

    doing escalations i'm just always really

    anxious like oh what if i take this

    server down or oh what if this you know

    the wrong semicolon here will completely

    just for this code i'm always on edge

    and i feel like it may never go away i

    feel like that paranoia is just a part

    of being an engineer so making sure i'm

    listening to something that's also

    calming me throughout the day so i as

    well listen to podcasts i'm listening to

    inspirational music or listening to you

    know an interview or one of my favorite

    artists or actresses or actors or

    something like that and then also being

    mindful that working from home now that

    i need to get out of this space at some

    point in my day i was working from home

    prior to the pandemic so all in all i've

    been working from home maybe six years

    now so it is a long time and what i

    first realized was you work longer hours

    working from home so i have friends who

    are just like oh i want to work from

    home position and i'm like it's not

    always cracked out to be like i don't

    know if anybody else is saying that work

    from home but for me somebody who likes

    to be out likes to be doing things and

    social

    being confined to your house and walking

    you know every day is not like my ideal

    you know life i had to you know get

    invested in a co-working space so you

    know if i feel like i need to change the

    scenery i can go 10 minutes down the

    street to a co-working space go to a

    coffee shop but being able to get

    outside of these four walls now that i'm

    confined to these four walls to work is

    a really big deal for me

    so if i do decide to stay home working

    one day that i'm leaving i'm going to

    the gym

    i'm you know going to run some errands i

    don't want to do food delivery one day i

    need to get out i'm one of those people

    where i thrive from sunlight so i need

    to make sure that you know my body is

    getting in that vitamin d you know every

    day if possible so those are just

    different things i do in drinking water

    i love water i am not somebody that

    drinks a lot of juice i don't drink soda

    so keeping myself hydrated taking

    vitamins juicing smoothies that is my

    holistic approach and wellness um that i

    also like to tell the girls as well

    because if i don't feel well that

    translates into my work as well yeah and

    the connection between just like mind

    and body i don't think people realize

    that and focus on that enough like the

    reason why i work out so much and the

    reason why i drink smoothies as my

    breakfast and lunch it's like vegetables

    and fruit and whatnot and the reason why

    i do that is because it has a profound

    impact on my mental health and as

    somebody who suffers from like chronic

    depression i need to make sure i monitor

    that because otherwise it could spiral

    out of control so try and avoid that

    i know and i was just having a

    conversation with a friend and she told

    me she doesn't take vitamins and i was

    like what i was like you need to take

    why don't you take vitamins i feel when

    i have like i've ran out of vitamins and

    i have not started taking i know exactly

    when i'm not taking vitamins like i feel

    it immediately

    so it's just little things and

    i miss the in-person connection but then

    i'm also finding

    how to adapt to this to where i don't

    feel like i need to be back into an

    office to thrive as well so like you

    said drinking my smoothies you know i

    was just telling you know some friends

    we all skate roller skate like let's go

    roller skating at piedmont park this

    weekend you know just different things

    like that it's my way to decompress and

    then also a way for me to still enjoy

    myself and not get tiresome because like

    i said earlier working from home you

    work much longer than what's expected

    and don't even realize it right do you

    have advice for

    people who

    might find it difficult to kind of

    separate their leisure space from their

    workspace like if they're in a small

    like studio or one bedroom apartment and

    like their office is like literally in

    their living room basically that was me

    i just bought a house last year and

    prior to that i was in a 750 square foot

    one bedroom apartment outside of my

    bedroom was my kitchen living room

    office workout room all in one space and

    i knew then when i started working from

    home i was just like yeah

    i need more space advice take breaks if

    you can't do like a long extended period

    of time just take like 10-15 minutes i

    made a point i think back to when i was

    in my apartment i would set times where

    i would go check my mailbox you know

    even if all of my bills are e-bills

    right i get everything to my email but

    just walking down to my mailbox and then

    going to see the leasing agent you know

    we me and her really good friends so

    just going to talk to her i used to live

    in an area where we had lots of trails

    and the trails were so long so just

    going and walking 10 minutes down the

    trail and coming back but just setting

    and planning out your day worked for me

    and i have to give all the credit to my

    friend karen rest in peace karen

    definitely was a avid planner i have

    never met somebody who had so many

    planners and notebooks and stationery

    and before she passed away i said sis we

    really need to get your stationery

    business up and going because she would

    always send me links like you need this

    planner i love this planner and i just

    felt like and it's still not organized

    but i felt my life was a little bit

    organized a little better and i found

    myself being able to keep myself

    accountable you know when i saw

    something written down versus oh shoot i

    forgot to take that two-minute walk

    today or i forgot to go to the mailbox i

    see it written down so i know okay i

    need to stick to this because it's

    physically written and i can see it so

    i'm holding myself more accountable for

    it yeah time blocking and planning and

    whatnot that has definitely helped me

    out my first therapist that i went to

    helped me go through that process and it

    made me realize oh i literally don't

    have a single moment to myself like this

    is like during my undergrad when it was

    like i start teaching at like 7 00 am

    and then i go until class until like

    seven or eight p.m at night and there's

    like no breaks in between so oh no no i

    definitely learned the hard way where i

    would start working at nine and then

    next thing you know i look at the window

    and the sun is setting it's 7 30 8

    o'clock and i haven't took lunch

    i got a whole bunch of snacks at my desk

    i gained a whole bunch of weight from

    there and i was just like yeah no i

    can't do this yeah it's like a gift and

    a curse it's great that able to sit and

    focus for that extended period of time

    because i able to do that as well but

    it's also

    so detrimental to your health when you

    don't take those breaks like when i was

    painting the house many years ago when

    we got it like i literally just like

    didn't even think about food and forgot

    about it and was like oh wow i've been

    painting for like 15 hours today i need

    to stop and like actually take a break

    and probably open up windows

    it was all trial and error for me was it

    thing that i tried that didn't work

    absolutely the committing to going to

    the gym every day was the hardest thing

    that i ever put down in my planner so i

    had to start setting realistic goals

    and then once i set those realistic

    goals then pushed a little further past

    that so

    instead of saying i'm gonna go to the

    gym you know every day this week i was

    just like i'm gonna go to the gym for 15

    minutes let me set like a

    mini expectation you know just to see if

    i meet that okay i did 15 minutes okay

    now i'm going to work out for 30 minutes

    on thursday so being able to set

    small milestones for yourself and i

    think it's the same way with any goal we

    said in life it's great you know we have

    this big picture

    but how i goal set is just like okay i

    know i want to you know get my phd but

    what are the steps i need to do to get

    there first before i ultimately reach

    that goal i need to make sure i have

    work-life balance if i don't have

    work-life balance now i mean damn she's

    not gonna have it you know pursuing a

    phd that's just how my mind operates

    like i see the end goal but i know

    there's obstacles in between that i need

    to deal with first before i get to that

    yeah that's smart yeah work life on

    balance is definitely something to get a

    hold of before you start phd

    here hence why i have not gotten it yet

    and with that that concludes the

    supercut from this prior year of guests

    responding to the question about how to

    prevent burnout there are two more

    episodes just like this that compile all

    the clips from other guests in the first

    that in the show notes at

    jaredoleary.com so make sure you check

    that out if you haven't listened to

    those episodes this field is difficult i

    hope this helps you out and i hope you

    consider sharing with other educators in

    the field so that way we can learn some

    strategies about how to prevent burnout

    stay tuned next week for another episode

    until then i hope you're all staying

    safe and are having a wonderful week

Resources/Links Relevant to This Episode

  • Listen to the supercut from 2021 with different guests

  • Listen to the supercut from 2020 with different guests

  • Listen to the full episodes of each excerpt

    • How to Get Started with Computer Science Education

      • In this episode I provide a framework for how districts and educators can get started with computer science education for free.

    • 102 Incorporating Design Thinking Within “Genius Hour” with Laura Discenza

      • In this interview with Laura Discenza, we discuss advice for getting started with learning how to teach CS, speaking with arts educators about the intersections of the arts and CS, regularly incorporating the “20% free learning/creating time” into the school day through a “genius hour,” avoiding overly scaffolding learning in the classroom, the importance of having fun with CS in elementary school, and much more.

    • 104 Unpacking Systems for CSforALL with Leigh Ann DeLyser

      • In this interview with Leigh Ann DeLyser, we discuss the purpose of CSforALL, considerations for leading people with different visions for (or interests in) CS education, the evolution and future direction of CS education, positive and negative corporate influence on education, thinking through equity from a systems perspective, and much more.

    • 106 Lifelong Kindergarten with Mitch Resnick

      • In this interview with Mitch Resnick, we discuss misconceptions people have around the four P’s (Projects, Passion, Peers, and Play) in Mitch’s book, encouraging depth of understanding while playing, what has surprised Mitch during his career, encouraging online communication and collaboration without creating artificial engagement, what Mitch wishes we’d see more of and discuss in CS education, our pet peeves with unplugged activities and computational thinking, accounting for survivorship bias with Scratch, expanding our focus on equity and inclusion to include both the “who” and the “how,” the importance of experimenting and learning through play, and much more.

    • 108 Unpacking Various Entry Points into Innovative Teaching with Jorge Valenzuela

      • In this interview with Jorge Valenzuela, we discuss the importance of engineering in STEM, situating computational thinking within a problem, getting started with computational thinking and computer science, project-based learning, incorporating social and emotional learning (SEL) in the classroom, Jorge’s approach to professional development, and much more.

    • 110 Helping New-to-CS Educators with Ashley Waring

      • In this interview with Ashley Waring, we discuss Ashley’s experiences with integrating CS in the classroom, lessons learned providing professional development for new-to-CS educators, what Ashley learned helping write Alabama’s CS standards and providing support after the rollout, language and oppression in standards development, why focusing on a college degree as an end goal might not be as important as focusing on lifelong learning, and more.

    • 112 INTech Camp for Girls with Khalia Braswell

      • In this interview with Khalia Braswell, we discuss the lack of representation in education, improving equity and inclusion in CS education, what Khalia has learned with INTech Camp for Girls, how Khalia iterates on her own abilities, the importance of self care, our thoughts on the future of CS education, and much more.

    • 114 James Fester on What Works with PBL

      • In this interview with James Fester, we discuss using informal learning approaches within formal learning spaces, what makes a learning experience engaging, how James’ experience in the National Parks Service’s Teacher Ranger Teacher program informed how he taught in the classroom, unpacking nuances of project-based learning, debunking common misconceptions of PBL, and so much more.

    • 116 Open Design for Learning with Aria Chernik

      • In this interview with Aria Chernik, we discuss student-centered engagement situated within authentic contexts, problems with focusing entirely on capitalistic purposes of education, using critical pedagogies to problematize power dynamics in the classroom, using an open design for learning, the phenomenology of collaboration, creating a space that encourages taking risks in education, and much more.

    • 120 Exploring CSEdResearch with Monica McGill

      • In this interview with Monica McGill, we discuss the nuances of identities in relation to conversations around equity, the importance of having many pathways in CS, designing games for purposes beyond pure entertainment, codeveloping CS courses with students, how researchers and K-12 practitioners can use CSEdResearch.org, our thoughts on bridging the gap between research and practice, opportunities for the field to continue to grow, the influence of outside forces on K-12 education, and so much more.

    • 122 The Place for Joy in Teaching and Learning with Sara Lev

      • In this interview with Sara Lev, we discuss the place for joy in teaching and learning, the impact of remote learning on PBL in early childhood, misconceptions around PBL in early childhood, encouraging curiosity by responding to questions with questions, social and emotional learning, the impact of yoga and meditation on teaching, and so much more.

    • 124 Intersections of Cultural Capital with Kimberly Scott

      • In this interview with Kimberly Scott, we discuss some of the problems with discourse around grit, students as techno-social change agents, teaching with culturally responsive approaches in communities that are hostile toward culturally responsive pedagogies, unpacking discourse and Discourse, considering both present and future identities when teaching, potential disconnects between theory and practice with intersectional work, comforting the disturbed and disturbing the comforted, and so much more.

    • 127 Problematizing Deficits with Sara Vogel

      • In this interview with Sara Vogel, we discuss changes in CS education since Sara was last on the podcast, the impact of COVID on learning, some of the problems with computational thinking, the importance of modifying curricula to make it more culturally and historically responsive, deficit language and racism around bilingual students, the importance of understanding translanguaging pedagogies, what apprenticeship and joint work can look like in education, and much more.

    • 129 A DREAM job with Addison Lilholt

      • In this interview with Addison Lilholt, we discuss Addison’s DREAM job, the importance of students having fun through meaningful learning experiences, lessons learned from remote teaching, the importance of mental breaks when learning/teaching, recommendations for getting started with CS, the intersections of CS and environmental sciences, creating an arcade cabinet to explore engineering and CS, being open about iterating on abilities as an educator, and so much more.

    • 131 Tech inclusion entrepreneurship with Ruthe Farmer

      • In this interview with Ruthe Farmer, we discuss Ruthe’s perspectives on feminism in education, Ruthe’s journey through tech inclusion entrepreneurship, finding ways outside of the classroom to have an impact on education, Ruthe’s work with the Last Mile Education Fund, and so much more.

    • 133 Accessibility and Inclusion in CS Education with Maya Israel

      • In this interview with Maya Israel, we discuss Maya’s shift from special education into CS education, the importance of universal design for learning (UDL) in CS classes, understanding the spectrum of accessibility for students with a diverse set of needs, the current status of accessibility and inclusion within the field of CS education, problematize deficit framings of students with disabilities, and so much more.

    • 135 Supercharge Your Middle School CS Classroom with Bob Irving

      • In this interview with Bob Irving, we discuss Bob’s book (Hard Fun: Supercharge your middle school computer science classroom with project-based, hands-on, just-in-time learning!), learning CS through Minecraft, the impact of COVID on Bob’s teaching, the importance of interest-driven learning, the future of CS education, and much more.

    • 139 The Pulse of PBL with Mike Kaechele

      • In this interview with Mike Kaechele, we discuss dismantling prejudices through projects, how to situate project-based learning within the community and for local impact, what can be learned when a project fails, the difference between projects and recipes, why social and emotional learning (SEL) is important, lessons learned teaching a variety of subject areas, differences between equity and equality in education, and so much more.

    • 142 Teaching AI in Elementary School Charlotte Dungan

      • In this interview with Charlotte Dungan, we discuss Charlotte’s holistic approach to education, remotely teaching CS to rural communities, why Charlotte believes teaching is harder than working in industry, teaching AI in elementary school, the influence of money on research and practice, the future of work, and much more.

    • 144 Teaching Over One Million Students with CS50's Carter Zenke

      • In this interview with Carter Zenke, we discuss Carter’s pedagogical approach that centers playfulness, creativity, and purpose; lessons learned teaching CS50 to over one million students; balancing free exploration with learning content; designing opportunities for getting into CS; the benefits of watching recordings of your own teaching; helping educators find their “why”; and so much more.

    • 146 Open Way Learning with Ben Owens

      • In this interview with Ben Owens, we discuss Ben’s transition from working as an engineer to working in K-12 education, opensource as a metaphor for teaching and learning, various stakeholder reactions to opensource resources and learning, bridging the gap between out-of-school and in-school learning, iterating on teaching and learning, and so much more.

    • 149 Napiya Nubuya is The Next IT Girl

      • In this interview with Napiya Nubuya, we discuss Napiya’s journey into CS, how COVID has impacted learning and communities, The Next IT Girl, being a role model for wellness, suggestions for working from home, the influence of fashion and design, our thoughts on the value of education, and so much more.

    • All other episodes

  • Find other CS educators and resources by using the #CSK8 hashtag on Twitter

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